Left Over John Thoughts

[grav_ity]

(From the vidding process)

1. I'm of the opinion that John never actually tried to kill Helen until "Haunted". I also think that was the first time he ever hit her.

[I'm saying it now because I think it might be disproved in an upcoming episode, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.]

1a. I'm also reasonably sure that the only reason John tries to kill her in "Haunted" is because he actually believes she'll kill him first.

1b. I am less sure about how that works. I mean, I think he avoided her a lot so as to not kill her, and that in the early days, he wrestled with the Energy Being a lot in order to prevent hurting her? But I'm not sure if that's practical.

1c. This plays into Helen's guilt as well, if she realizes on some level that John killed other people in order to not kill her.

1d. I have no idea what "We'll being our dance anew"; "Count on it" is supposed to mean. Has she been chasing him? Tracking him? What, exactly, is the meaning of "dance"? They're a bit...chummy in FK&C. All "Darling" and going for walks by themselves in the dark. I don't know.

2. I am nearly positive that John tried to kill James at least once over the years.

3. I might vid Clara again, just to prove a point, if I ever find a good song for her.

4. John's story is not about healing. James's story is not about catching the bad guy. Nigel's story is not about disappearing. Nikola's story is not about scientific progress. Helen's story is not about learning. The story, the really amazing thing about the story, is that none of them ever change. They just keep going. And sometimes they die. And sometimes they don't.

+++

HOLY GOD, I WANT TO DO THIS WITH EASTER CANDY: Cooking with Candy and Cadbury Eggs Benedict and Sushi a la Peep

Comments

[shadadukal]

John never actually tried to kill Helen until "Haunted"

I agree.

I also think that was the first time he ever hit her.

I need to think about that. And not because of anything that might happen in upcoming episodes.

I'm also reasonably sure that the only reason John tries to kill her in "Haunted" is because he actually believes she'll kill him first.

Absolutely!

I have no idea what "We'll being our dance anew"; "Count on it" is supposed to mean. Has she been chasing him? Tracking him? What, exactly, is the meaning of "dance"? They're a bit...chummy in FK&C. All "Darling" and going for walks by themselves in the dark. I don't know.

I'm not exactly sure what to think of those lines. The darling is ironic from John I think. She doesn't actually call him that, does she? Going for walks is weird, but maybe it can be explained away as they're looking for Worth... Yeah, it doesn't look like it to me either. :P

I am nearly positive that John tried to kill James at least once over the years.

I need to think about that one too. Maybe he did because the energy being demanded someone close to him and John lost the fight but still managed to point it in James's direction rather than going after Helen.

I might vid Clara again, just to prove a point, if I ever find a good song for her.

Yes, please. No song called "Invisible Girl"? ;)

John's story is not about healing. James's story is not about catching the bad guy. Nigel's story is not about disappearing. Nikola's story is not about scientific progress. Helen's story is not about learning. The story, the really amazing thing about the story, is that none of them ever change. They just keep going. And sometimes they die. And sometimes they don't.

Need to think about that too. Today is not a day for thinking. :P

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

The darling is ironic from John I think. She doesn't actually call him that, does she?

Oh, it's definitely ironic. And I suppose she doesn't chide him because the PM is there? And she's already got her dig in with "Not for political gain, anyway".

That scene just KILLS me, because Helen is at least willing to talk to him, whereas James KEEPS LOOKING AWAY. And, like, TURNING.

Which: That's why I think John has tried to kill James. Because James has actually gone looking for him, whereas Helen just kind of...didn't trust herself to find him? By which I mean didn't trust herself to kill him if she found him? I have no idea.

Here is something that might help wrt thinking. The subtitle for the Nikola vid is "(But sometimes I fall asleep in my clothes)".

I WANT WORK TO BE OVER SO I CAN GO HOME AND BE FANNISH!

[shadadukal]

And she's already got her dig in with "Not for political gain, anyway".

Yep. I love the games they play. Gods, what is wrong with me?:P

"(But sometimes I fall asleep in my clothes)"

Actually, that just made me go "guh", so not helping. ;)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Gosh, and I was so trying to be helpful! :p

[shadadukal]

Not going to believe that when you talked about Nikola and his clothes in the same sentence. ;)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

And don't forget about the handcuffs!

[shadadukal]

Damn, now you're making it worse. :P

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

*blinks innocently*

[penknife.livejournal.com]

I agree that "Haunted" is the first time John tries to kill Helen, and I do think he actually means for her to kill him instead, but that once he's started the fight to provoke her into doing it, he can't stop. I don't know whether it's the first time he's hit her, but I think she's genuinely shocked that he does it, so certainly not how most of their post-Ripper interactions have gone, I think.

That scene just KILLS me, because Helen is at least willing to talk to him, whereas James KEEPS LOOKING AWAY. And, like, TURNING.

I really love that moment, because it's just this thrown away thing while people are talking -- John comes into the room, and James turns his back to him despite the fact that leaves him looking at the wall.

I'm not sure whether I think John has tried to kill James. (I'm fairly sure that James has tried to kill John. Or at least that he believes that he has, although I'm not sure how sincere his efforts have ever been.)

That "begin our dance anew" in K&C does seem to imply that Helen has been hunting John, which ... given the entire planet Earth for him to hide in, the only way she'd ever have any clue about where he was is if he wanted her to. They are messed up that way.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I really love that moment, because it's just this thrown away thing while people are talking -- John comes into the room, and James turns his back to him despite the fact that leaves him looking at the wall.

YES. YES, all of this! (with bonus Coat Flip and Waistcoat Exposure).

I guess what I was getting at is that James has put himself in John's line of fire, as it were, whereas Helen has not because, unlike James, she realizes she probably won't kill him, where James thinks he's angry enough to do it.

Sooooo messed up!

(I am writing fic when I get home...maybe. I may vid. SO MUCH TO DO!)

[penknife.livejournal.com]

Oh, and while I agree that John's "Darling!" in K&C is definitely ironic, I wouldn't put it past pre-Ripper John to have called Helen "darling" perfectly seriously; we are talking about a man who could utter the words "I promise to make you happy for all eternity" with a straight face. Which just makes it sting more, I'm sure.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Yes. And he might not even mean it to sting, which of course just makes it worse.

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

I definitely think John tried to goad Helen into killing him. That he wants her to, he expects her to, and that expression just before he turns is resignation. It's come down to this as he always thought it would. And then he throws the knife wide and misses by a mile. I mean, for heaven's sake! I could have done better than that! He's throwing it away, getting it out of his hands.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think so too (having watched the scene a pile of times in the last few days). I think the other part is that he keeps reaching for her when he's clearly already collapsing, so that she'll keep shooting him.

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

Yes, that.

And these are big old dramatic people. "Living large" was coined for the Five!