Musings on Hobbit Fanfiction

[grav_ity]

So I'm not sure what the Big Influences were, besides LotR, 10 years ago when the internet exploded with movie-inspired fanfic. I don't even know for sure if there WAS a noticeable outside influence. The internet, and Tolkien fandom, was a different place then.

Now, though? With the Hobbit? It absolutely sings with Game of Thrones. And I don't know how I feel about that.

On one hand, everyone seems to know the proper terms for things like "smallclothes" and "cuirass", but on the other hand, HOLY GOD, SOME OF IT IS DEPRESSING.

(I was thinking about the quote "the law is hard, but it is the law", except that turns out to be from The Mortal Instruments, so...not so much.)

Anyway, think it's interesting how these things evolve. It doesn't just happen in fandom (for a related example, there's LEGEND OF THE SEEKER, which was mostly the same people as XENA and HERCULES, but with all the experience of LotR), but the Hobbit is very close to my heart. It's relatively easy to copy the style of LotR or GoT (she says, having not read GoT, but assuming they're similarly in High Style), so I think it's worth pointing out that there are VERY, VERY FEW fics written in the style of the Hobbit. I don't know how many times "Not for the last time!" (or some variant), appears in the text, but you RARELY see it in fic, even when that fic is mirroring the quest directly.

I remember seeing some complaints that Peter Jackson had taken a book written for six-year-olds and made it into a PG-13 movie, and I didn't really pay that much attention to it, because movie ratings are such a bear in the first place (and because 90% of the reason the movie was doomed to a PG rating anyway was because of the smoking, which you can always get away with in the book, so once they had it, they used it). Fic is usually more "mature" than the source anyway, so I'm not saying that's a good correlation either, but compared with most of the LotR fic I read, the Hobbit fic is much more "dark".

(Aside: GOD, I HATE DARK FANTASY. I get it. I really, really do. But OMG, it is not the be-all and end-all of good fantasy writing. SOMETIMES THE GOOD GUYS JUST WIN, THERE'S LIMITED SUFFERING, THE BAD GUYS DIE IN FIRES, AND IT'S STILL VALID LITERATURE. ARGH!)

So Hobbit fanfic has me in a weird place. Thank goodness Sanctuary (and, you know, growing up in general) taught me to be a patient and understanding fan. I can appreciate good writing more than I could ten years ago, and I am more likely to read a well-written dark-fic than a poorly-written fluffy one. I cut the Hobbit fandom a lot of slack, because I'm just so happy it's here. And it's doing some REALLY COOL THINGS (as I've said before, about gender and social standing and economics and racism and and and).

Thank goodness there's a book, really. And thank goodness I love it so much. I love what's grown up around it, of course, and I love it a lot, because it's collaborative and pretty and fun. But when it gets dark, and it always gets dark (because it's TRENDY, now, and also because HAVE YOU SEEN PETER JACKSON'S OTHER MOVIES*?), there's a place I can go and hide, until wanting more gapfillers drags me out again. :)





*That said, one of my FAVOURITE conversations to have about LotR is the one where people are all "Trust Peter Jackson to make the most of decapitated heads!" and I'm all "TOTALLY IN THE BOOK, SUCKERS!", because REALLY.

Comments

[eldanna.livejournal.com]

* well, he is rather known for that in his movies, though you are right, it is totally in the book. In rather graphic detail in some places. I should know, I just reread it. I think there's actually a lot more canon in these Hobbit movies than the LOTR movies, which sounds weird, but there's more little hints and references that I think got in. LOTR is more...sweeping? Hobbit is more...practical? I've no idea. These are not words that fit.

Discussions about movie ratings bug me. Especially for these movies. [Epic battle sequences will never cease to make me headdesk and giggle in equal measure.]

Uh, would you like Happy Hobbit Fic, m'dear? I am totally guilty of writing the sad stuff lately, I do admit, though at least I'm staying well away from dark fantasy because WHY MAKE IT WORSE?!?!

There was the fic about Elrond's moon room and a practical joke. I should write that. I'm 99% certain it will turn out funny. Though not in Hobbit style.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I would also say that there's a big difference between "sad" and "dark" (or even "angsty" and "dark").

And I agree about the canon too. Research is much easier, if nothing else. ;)

I am thisclose to writing a fic where Arwen and Tauriel talk about Love and Fate and Making Their Own Quests, but I'm not sure where I'd PUT it.

ETA: I also have a One Ring/Arkenstone ficlet that is refusing to be crack!fic, and some more stuff from Timshel!verse (with 100% more cuddling babies and kissing, but we all know how that turns maudlin pretty quickly), and maybe something about Dwarves and Dishes called "You Can't Make An Omelet (Without Breaking Some of the Plates)", but...I don't know.

[eldanna.livejournal.com]

Dwarf fic, definitely. The Arwen and Tauriel fic would be wonderful but I do see a problem in where to put it. Though the advantage of AO3 is that you can put it everywhere, if you choose really.

;)

[amenirdis.livejournal.com]

Q. Please use each of these terms properly in a sentence: smallclothes, cuirass

A. It was easy to tell which pack was Bilbo's because it contained the smallclothes. "Coward!" Thorin shouted. "Get your cuirass back here!"

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

*snickering forever*

[lferion]

Snorfle!

Though some of us have known those sorts of words for a loooooong time. It is nice to see them getting wider use.

[icarus-chained.livejournal.com]

Cuirass I didn't actually know. Terms for armour that I learned primarily from fantasy include: hauberk, greaves, bracers/vambraces, helm, gorget, tabard (not armour, but part of the ensemble). Now that I look at it, you can probably actually tell what sort of fantasy I've been reading from that, can't you? *grins* Little plate armour, lots of mail and leather.

You can add in silk shirts against arrows, too. Oh, and trebuchets, arbalests, sappers, siege towers, ballistae ... For some reason, fantasy involves a lot of medieval siege warfare. And sewers.

Never say fiction, or fantasy, can't educate someone. Heh.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

What's stunning is how many of those words I learned not through descriptions of battles scenes and people being awesome and brave, but in the post-battle disrobing sequences. Oh, fanfic. I hope it never changes.

(To be fair, I read a lot of books too, but still.)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I'm also glad to see the wider use. :)

[icarus-chained.livejournal.com]

Um. I apologies for the kinda depressing tone on the past couple of fics -_-; In my defense, the movies make it all political all of a sudden, and then you add in the rest of the universe, and you can get to some canon-compliant depressing places pretty quickly. *grins sheepishly*

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Sad and Dark are not the same thing, as I said above. There's an inherent level of Sad (or melancholy, at least) to all Hobbit/LotR canon. There's not a lot of darkness, except in the literal sense, with the exception of some rather vague allusions to what may or may not have happened with Éowyn. It might not be realistic, but YE GODS, I do like to read the occasional fantasy book where rape isn't a CONSTANT threat.

[grey-wonderer.livejournal.com]

It's funny but in some ways, although it was the children's book, I think THE HOBBIT is a much darker story. I was thinking about it the other day and really, I think I would have trouble writing happy fic for it. Even if you go prior to the big journey to reclaim the homeland and the treasure, you are still swimming in dark waters. The book is sprinkled with humor here and there but the dwarves have such a dark history and a really, a dark future.
I enjoyed your Dis fic but I can't see how you could have made it a happy story. These poor dwarves don't have any real lasting happy.

I've read GoT, all the books to this point anyway and other than the sex, there are lots of parallels. A bit of magic, lots of greed, the need for power, and surprising heroes, oh and dragon(s). The two worlds do share a lot of elements, even dwarves.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I do differentiate between "dark" and "sad", which I said in other comments. There's very little you can do to make a story about Fili and Kili truly happy, because either they die, or you fix it so they DON'T die, but you still have to remember that they DO. Same with Thorin, Oin, Ori and Balin. There's not a lot of wiggle room.

The darkness in THE HOBBIT lies almost entirely with Thorin (WHO THREATENS TO KILL BILBO. VIOLENTLY. IN FRONT OF EVERYONE), and Thranduil, so I don't mind them bringing it out for the movie. It's the non-canonical darkness that gets to me (slavery, the parts with dark sexual politics, etc).

The primary difference, for me, with GoT and Tolkien is that Tolkien is predominantly happy. I mean, yes people die and epic loves are separated, but they all get to be together again in Valinor (more or less), or Mandos, and those who live, live well. With GoT, it's just one thing after another, and it makes me CRAZY.

[grey-wonderer.livejournal.com]

No question about it, GoT is seriously depressing and dark. There are far fewer characters in GoT that have noble motives. With LOTR there are pure souls fully on the side of good, but those are hard to find in GoT.