grav_ity: (bite psychiatrists)
[personal profile] grav_ity
I seem to be having this conversation about once a month now, and I figured I might as well make a post about it. If nothing else, I may enable [livejournal.com profile] irony_rocks instead of vice versa. There has to be a first time for everything...;)

I should probably point out here that of any fandom I've ever encountered, Doctor Who is the craziest. It could eat both Team Edward and Team Jacob for breakfast, tackle McShep and Spuffy for elevensies and still have enough room left to devour itself for lunch. It's a terrifying place, really, but also worth it. So I encourage you to watch, make your own opinions, and then join me hiding under the bed and just agree never to talk about it. Suffice it to say, everything that follows is my own opinion, and when it comes to Doctor Who, I am something of an outlier.

The other thing about Who is that it's been running FOREVER. You probably already know that. The length of the show, and the changes in the actors who play the various incarnations and the companions, are a large part of what contributes to the craziness of the fandom. Some people really hate Martha. Some people really hate Donna. Some people really hate Stephen Moffat. None of these people are afraid to share their ideas with you. This is inescapable.

(Note: I have, for the most part, been as vague as possible, but spoilers are probably inevitable. I have said NOTHING about the big twists of seasons five and six, though. So you're probably good. And honestly, if you're not expecting spoilers, you should just disconnect from the internet, plug in "Rose" and come back when you're all caught up. Still, I will give you a spoiler warning, because I am like that.)

There are basically two ways to catch up. Start at the beginning of Nine and watch everything, or watch a selection of episodes that will tell you what you need to know and not submit you to suffering through episodes like "Fear Her" or "Midnight".

"New Who", as it is typically designated, began with Christopher Eccleston and Billie Piper in an episode called "Rose". Generally speaking, I suggest that people start with that one, as it will introduce you to the world of Who in general, and to two characters I genuinely like.

Next up is "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances", a two parter which, for me, encompasses everything I love about Doctor Who: history, brilliant characters, fun with Time, and Stephen Moffat scaring the crap out of me using inanimate objects I will encounter a lot in my daily life. Also, this episode still has my favourite ending of any Who episode to date.

From there, I skip quite a bit, and go straight to season's two's "The Girl in the Fireplace". Another brilliant Time episode, with bonus period costume, TGitF really sets up what it means to be friends with the Doctor, and what that will do to your life.

(You can throw in "School Reunion" at this point if you like (though it comes before TGitF), because Sarah-Jane Smith/Elisabeth Sladen is pretty much THE BEST EVER, and I LOVE HER.)

Next, I would skip straight to "Blink", which many people would argue about because for some reason they like "The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit" and the two season finales. They're important to the season, maybe, but not really to the concept of Who, so that's why I press on. (Also, I have Issues With Ten which I am trying not to impress on you until you've had some time to form your own opinion). "Blink" is, for me, the single most terrifying episode of the show ever made, which is why it is not my favourite episode. If I could watch it without spending ten days fearing EVERYTHING, it would be number one. As it stands, it will have to be content with a #3 spot.

My issues with Ten come to a head in season four, mostly about the end of it, and how it culminates in the single worst thing Ten ever did (well, maybe the second worst thing...I'm undecided), but even I have to admit that "The Silence in the Library"/"The Forests of the Dead" are fabulous episodes. Plus, they introduce us to Dr. River Song and trust me when I say that she is going to be important later.

(Aside: a goodly portion of my f-list watches the show as "Doctor Song", which is totally understandable as a life choice, even if it is not one that I follow myself.)

From there, it's straight to season five and "The Eleventh Hour", and then watch the whole thing up to "A Good Man Goes To War", preferably in the next five days, because that's when season six picks back up again.

I should confess at this point that I adore Stephen Moffat. It's probably not coincidental that all the episodes I've suggested except for "Rose", "The Empty Child" and "School Reunion" are written by him. He has my favourite grip on how the Doctor reacts to people in general, Time in particular, and the companions in specific. Russel T. Davies's take on the show is all "dark" and "deep" which basically means that Ten is Very Sad A Lot and has to make all sorts of Terrible Decisions (sometimes even against other people's requests, see above re: season four) and Eleven is kind of...not. He's also polite to historical figures, most of the time, which I appreciate.

This is not to say that the Moff always hits a home run (I really, really didn't like "Cold Blood" and I can pretty much guarantee you it's not for the reason you think), and so far in season six I am mostly waiting for the pay off, but I have a great deal more faith in Moffat than I ever had in Davies, so there's that.

I've done my best not to talk about characters, because I really think it's best if you meet them on your own (plus, there are certain beings in uniform I wouldn't want to spoil for anyone!), but I will say that Who does character very well, even if I personally don't care for them. If nothing else, I am evidence that you can love a show while disliking the main character for three entire seasons!

To recap then:

Everything that everyone ever tells you about this show, including what you just read, is next to useless, once they finish telling you it's good and you should watch it. That said, my suggested episodes are:

Rose
The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
The Girl in the Fireplace
Blink
The Silence in the Library/The Forests of the Dead
Season Five
Season Six

After you do watch the show, find people who agree with you. Failing that, find people who don't bite and agree to focus on things that you happen to nearly agree on. Don't worry if you can't pick a favourite character (heck, I can't pick one and I've developed an entire flow chart about it...and I even cheated!). Don't worry if you can't pick a favourite episode. There's a lot to love. This is a show that's definitely bigger on the inside.

(But I swear, if you ship Ten/Rose, I may never speak to you again.)

(Kidding!)

(sort of...)

BONUS TARDIS CAKE!


ETA: In the comments there are spoilers and discussions of Shakespeare (and, on occasion, both at the same time).

Date: 2011-08-22 04:24 pm (UTC)
nandamai: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nandamai
So what was the single (or second) worst thing Ten ever did?

(Very casual fan here, incapable of being offended re: Who.)

Date: 2011-08-22 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com
IMO, causing a woman to commit suicide after deciding he was TIME LORD VICTORIOUS and could change things based on whatever his whim was. Way to go, Ten.

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:29 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I disliked The Ruination of Harriet Jones (for no good reason), and I was VERY upset by what he did to Donna at the end of season four, mostly because it was specifically against her wishes. What [livejournal.com profile] mrv3000 mentions below is my #3.

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrv3000.livejournal.com
But I swear, if you ship Ten/Rose, I may never speak to you again.

PTHTHTHTHT!

Date: 2011-08-22 04:25 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (stupid cute)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I know! I have no real conviction when it comes to things like this. SAM AND JACK FOREVER!!!!

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:25 pm (UTC)
mad_maudlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mad_maudlin
You...really didn't like Midnight? Hmm.

I may have to introduce you to [livejournal.com profile] lofro as someone whose Ten!Issues supersede even my own, because as much as a I bitch about him and RTD (and really, are the two inextricable?) I also love his companions to death. So my version of your list would totes include "Turn Left" and the "Last of the Time Lords" arc, and parts of "Planet of the Dead" that were not fishing for Yet Another Spinoff.

And I wrote a Hand!Ten/Rose fic once, but the entire premise was about subverting Actual!Ten/Rose...can we still be friends?

Date: 2011-08-22 04:28 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (come with me)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I hate witch hunts. And mobs. So "midnight" and I were pretty much doomed. ;)

I think Ten and RTD are inextricable, except that sometimes I also don't like Tennant as well so...I'm not sure.

I was trying to keep it "simple introduction" which is why "Turn Left" and the Christmas specials didn't make the list.

We can still be friends! I talk a good game, but as [livejournal.com profile] mrv_3000 can attest to, I never actually break up with someone over Rose/Ten.

Date: 2011-08-22 04:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eolivet.livejournal.com
all the episodes I've suggested except for "Rose", "The Empty Child" and "School Reunion" are written by him

Moffat wrote "The Empty Child," right -- it was RTD who wrote "The Doctor Dances?"

(Wow, "Father's Day" isn't even on your list of favorites? Tough crowd here. ;)

ITA about Ten/Rose though (even if I've come to understand them a little more lately): just...no.

Date: 2011-08-22 04:34 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (who)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Um...then imdb is lying to me. And that also means Moffat invented Jack Harkness, which I don't think is true because then he'd be more involved in Torchwood.

(I was trying to keep it simple!)

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:39 pm (UTC)
shadadukal: (HP : Question authority)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
I watched an extract during Fandom March Madness and it looked really weird. Enough that I haven't been wanting to pick it up despite the number of people on my flist who watch this.

Date: 2011-08-22 04:43 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (farscape)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
When I started watching it, right on the heels of Farscape, my overwhelming impression was that Doctor Who and Farscape are similar, except one was made by Americans, Australians and puppets, and the other was made by the Brits.

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peanutbutterer.livejournal.com
I know nothing about Who, nor am I currently looking to watch it, but I have now bookmarked this, as well as your Sanctuary guide, in case I change my mind. I appreciate these types of posts! New shows can be very overwhelming.

Date: 2011-08-22 04:56 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
HA!

I used to be a completist...but now I'm more inclined to listen if someone gives me a short list. :)

Date: 2011-08-22 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tessagratton.livejournal.com
Haha, so I came to New Who with a built-in love of David Tennant the Shakespearean Actor of Supreme Genius, and was hugely biased in his favor. That makes me think it's EVEN MORE IMPRESSIVE how much I hated the eventual turn of the character thanks to bad writing.

(Though, to be fair, if I had Timelord power, I would probably do evil, too...)

Date: 2011-08-22 04:54 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (live long and prosper)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
My reaction to that was "PATRICK STEWART IS DOING HAMLET?" and then all my friends were all "Honey, David Tennant is doing Hamlet" and I was all "...valid point."

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Date: 2011-08-22 04:52 pm (UTC)
sholio: (Who-Rose)
From: [personal profile] sholio
I like your episode choices! :D Though "Empty Child" did WAY more of a number on my psyche than "Blink". "Blink" still makes me look over my shoulder nervously when I'm around you-know-whats, but "Empty Child" had such a visceral horror for me that I've never been able to watch the episode more than once, even though I'd like to see Jack's introduction again.

I do think that cherry-picking the Moffat episodes is likely to give a person a skewed idea of what the show is like, though -- especially if they aren't someone who likes horror. Depending on who I was reccing it to, I'd be inclined to go for a few more of the "goofy hijinks with time travel" episodes to balance out the OH GOD IT'S COMING TO KILL US ALL aspect of the Moffat ones. *g* Which is not to say that I disagree with your choices -- the episodes you've picked out are among the show's strongest -- but I do think they lean very heavily towards one axis of the show's polarity, which is going to be a little misleading (in either direction, actually -- if someone comes for the creepy horror and then starts hitting episodes with sentient fat globules and flying salt shakers, it's going to throw them off a bit *g*).

Date: 2011-08-22 04:55 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
The Moff episodes also make me laugh, though, which is why I picked them, but that's a pretty good point! ;)

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Date: 2011-08-22 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] soniag.livejournal.com
Russel T. Davies's take on the show is all "dark" and "deep" which basically means that Ten is Very Sad A Lot and has to make all sorts of Terrible Decisions

THIS, yes. This is what annoyed about the direction Ten's characterization took. The final eps were quite a slog for me, so much so that I was incredibly relieved to have dorky/happy Matt Smith. I do tend to prefer Moffat's writing.

All in all, however, I'm too casual of a fan to effectively engage on this. So interesting to read, though!

Date: 2011-08-22 05:06 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I haven't actually watched "The End of Time" on the basis that a) I was afraid that Martha and Mickey would get married for no reason, and b) I honestly didn't care enough about Ten to watch his farewell tour. I still have no idea what happened in the episode (though I do know that it was Wilfred who knocked four times).

Date: 2011-08-22 05:19 pm (UTC)
lferion: (Mood_HarrietJones_FTW)
From: [personal profile] lferion
Interesting list! I would make a strong argument for Nine's second episode (The End of the World) as well as the first, because it goes to understanding the nature of the show -- plus it has the moment that told me that the new show really was Doctor Who, and not something pretending to be Who. (I am One of Those People -- I have in fact seen every extant episode of Old Who :-)). It's the bit with the fan and the moment of stillness.

Date: 2011-08-22 06:01 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I've only seen "Ghostlight" (which is a funny story, actually). What's the moment?

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Date: 2011-08-22 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] irony-rocks.livejournal.com
*BOOKMARKS THIS* I plan on starting Dr. Who this weekend, if I get time. AND YES, YOU TOTALLY GET ENABLING CREDIT FOR THIS. I've been seeing you geek out about River Song for FOREVER, and it just wetted my appetite.

Date: 2011-08-22 06:01 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (who)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Well my work here is done. :)

Date: 2011-08-22 06:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sache8.livejournal.com
I think it's a testimony to the magnetizing and polemic power of WHO that I check my flist after an hour of good worker bee behavior and not only do have a new post that wasn't there before but that there are 25 COMMENTS already. ;-)

... which almost double in the time it takes me to skim them. ;-)

Date: 2011-08-22 06:15 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (fangirls)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
HEE!

(And this post is quite close to becoming my "most commented on ever", having passed that one where we talk about the Sanctuary cast as ponies and the last time I accidentally started a ship war re: Helen and John.)

Date: 2011-08-22 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icarus-chained.livejournal.com
I have a strange relationship with Who. In that I was introduced to it via the tenth Doctor in something like Christmas '06, because my cousins had the boxset for Christmas. So I looked it up, and then took this massive, almost immediate sidestep into Classic Who, because I've a thing for old sci-fi. So I sort of ... side-stepped most of NuWho altogether, and became a massive fan of Three and Seven, and Ace, and Ian and Barbara, and the Brigadier. *grins, shrugs sheepishly* I never really got back into Ten after that (he's more screaming-angst than I usually like), though I loved Nine, and I adore Eleven since he is, basically, a Classic Doctor in a new-era show. That said, I've missed most of the Eleventh Doctor series, because I just couldn't find it, and am too broke to buy the sets. *pouts*

Date: 2011-08-22 09:27 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (who)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I really, really don't like Ten. ;) I hope you get to watch Eleventy!Who some day though! He is fun.

Date: 2011-08-22 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azarsuerte.livejournal.com
Hmm. Interesting choices. I very much agree with some of these episodes and not so much with others. (I'm beginning to think I'm the only Moffat fan in the fandom who *didn't* like GitF. *g*)

Date: 2011-08-22 09:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-08-22 09:24 pm (UTC)
ext_13221: (Nine (Eccleston))
From: [identity profile] m-nivalis.livejournal.com
Hey, didn't know you were a fan too.

I'd add 1x02 The end of the world and 4x1 Partners in crime (Donna!) to your list, but otherwise I agree with you. I've managed to get people hooked on the series with Rose/TEC/TDD, so it's a good strategy.

And I just realised the second half of series 6 starts this Saturday!!! Yay!

Date: 2011-08-22 09:28 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (come with me)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I'm not very fannish about it, mostly because the fandom itself scares me, but yes: I am a fan. ;)

Date: 2011-08-22 09:26 pm (UTC)
ext_3557: annerb icon with scenes of all team variations, my OTP (DW Rory Question)
From: [identity profile] aurora-novarum.livejournal.com
Huh, I guess I'm a Moffet fan, but I'm too casual to commit to any particular thing.

I adore Ten (although I agree with your complaints that make you dislike him). I also love Eleven. Didn't care as much for Nine, but eh. I figure different strokes.

The best part of the post was this: "preferably in the next five days, because that's when season six picks back up again." because I've been wondering and didn't know (I mean "late summer"). Do you know if BBC America is airing it near in time to regular BBC?

I went on a Rory-a-thon last weekend, oddly enough in reverse order.

The only advice I'd give for watching Who is to know it's very British and it's SUPPOSED to be ridiculous. Because I was watching it from a friend's dvds (starting with Nine) and was really going...um...wtf? and then all of a sudden I got engrossed like a switch was pulled and now I just adore the show. (And I really need to get to work on having more than one Who icon).

Date: 2011-08-22 09:29 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (amy pond)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Well, according to the Space Channel (which is Canadian) it's August 27. I have no idea what's up everywhere else.

So, soooo crazy! Above, I compared it to Farscape, and that's usually something I stick to. :)

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Date: 2011-08-22 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] samjohnsson.livejournal.com
Two thoughts on that list. Satan Pit is kinda important if they go on to watch Torchwood (and a couple of the other eps at the end of S1). And we're going to agree to disagree about Midnight in general.

I might also make the viewers watch End of Time I & II, if not all of series 4.5 - there's too much in there for why Eleven is so different.

Date: 2011-08-23 02:14 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (who)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Yeah, as I said, there is very little that is more subjective than a recommendation for Doctor Who. ;)

I left out TSP/TIP because, well, mostly because I didn't like either of them, but also because my list is designed to get people to season five ASAP, without detouring into Torchwood. (I do love Torchwood, btw, I just think it's something you can go back for later if all you really want is Doctor Song, which is what most of my flist is after.)

I haven't seen End of Time (for reasons I explained above, but also because I was so sick of Ten that I was off the whole show at that point. It took me nearly a month and some fairly steady prodding to watch The Eleventh Hour, due to how annoyed I was), so I left it off because I haven't seen it, I have no idea what happened in it, and I don't feel that I missed anything.

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Date: 2011-08-23 12:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wildtiger7.livejournal.com
When a friend of mine introduced me to Doctor Who a few years ago at Dragon*Con, she showed me "The Shakespeare Code" and "Blink." And then gave me season 1 and told me to have fun. I think that was the right choice - "Rose" is choppy and crazy, but not in a good way. It's rough. Meanwhile, The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances are my favorite Who episodes ever. I would happily show them to anyone just to watch them again.

Ten was not my favorite, though I liked him better when he wasn't paired with Rose. There was no grown-up in that relationship.

Date: 2011-08-23 02:11 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Honestly, I don't remember Rose that much, beyond loving it a great deal. The list as I made it was more to get people up to season five as quickly as possible.

Date: 2011-08-25 10:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] they-regrey.livejournal.com
Hi, I mostly lurk, but Doctor Who tends to trigger my effusive side so here I am, commenting.
This is a really great post and I'm especially glad that you included Silence in the Library, mainly because I am one of the aforementioned River Song fangirls-it's the hair that does it :)
Doctor Who's practically a national institution in the UK, which means it usually gets a fair amount of press attention, and I've actually yet to see a review of Saturday's upcoming episode that isn't singing the episode's praises, so it's well worth a watch.
It's also highly entertaining to watch children explaining to confused parents who are watching it with them exactly what's going on ;)

Date: 2011-08-28 05:46 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I think I actually convinced someone just based on this post...but they're in a hurry so I just insisted on the Library double header before season five. ;)

Date: 2011-08-26 06:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] world-of-blade.livejournal.com
Totally agree with your choice on eps. Love all of them!! Yay. :)

Date: 2011-08-28 05:46 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (come with me)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I'm a rather unapologetic Moffat Girl, so at least I am both predictable and consistent. ;)

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