Some (More) Thoughts About Helen: Out of the Blue

[grav_ity]

A brief note before we begin.

I liked this episode. It was pretty much 99% set-up, but I'm okay with that (remember Normandy? Yeah, I have NO PROBLEMS with episodes that are 99% set-up!). It was pretty to look at and thematically shot, and, until I started thinking too much, the good kind of uncomfortable, and I'm reasonably sure it will segue nicely into the finale tomorrow.

I also have Things I Don't Like in fanfic. Some of the examples I give are going to be kind of specific. This is not a slight to the writers of said fanfic. We all have things we don't like and characterizations we don't agree on. That's because we are all different and coming at the show from different places. That's part of what makes us so awesome. Please keep that in mind if I don't like one of your pet fanons. I'm sure I've got pet fanons you don't like too. :)

That said, assume spoilers up to "Out of the Blue" for all that follows.

I don't like drugs. I had to take two courses of diazepam once (for pain) and I've never been more uncomfortable in my entire life. I realize that some people need them and use them properly, and I believe with my whole being that this is a good thing. But in fiction, or fanfiction, I am not always a fan.

Sanctuary has always been kind of free with the drug use. And I get it. The Five were experimentalists to the extreme. I have no problems believing that James was addicted to cocaine and we know that John uses opiates to stun the Energy Being. But I have trouble accepting it from Helen.

I should clarify: I think she's tried pretty much everything, from absinthe to...something that starts with Z. But I have real, real trouble believing she was ever addicted to anything. She's too driven and hyper-focused for that, I think, and when she tries to blot out the world, she does it through work. Or, you know, with a pistol. She's reckless, yes, but she's not self-destructive.

Except in terms of Ashley. Who does not exist in "Out of the Blue". If Ashley had been there, had been killed in a hit and run or died of cancer, I'd have bought the lorazepam in "Out of the Blue" without a moment's hesitation. Drugs in lieu of a zombie apocalypse, I guess. But there was no Ashley, there was never an Ashley, and I can't think why Helen needed the drugs.

Lorazepam is prescribed for anxiety, insomnia, acute seizures and the sedation of aggressive patients. I think we're meant to believe that Helen got the pills because of insomnia, but most of the fanfic I've read since the episode has gone for anxiety, turning Helen into a person who doesn't leave her house because she can't. I can't say I'm comfortable with that.

Take Will, for example, who without the Sanctuary manages to construct for himself a fairly decent "bliss" (entirely separate post: GOD, do I ever wish Kate hadn't said that!). He's a respected doctor, he has a lovely wife and a family in waiting, a living mother and a nice car. Without the Sanctuary, he's still Dr. Zimmerman, the smartest guy in the room.

And what's Helen without the Sanctuary? A broken, fragile woman, who can't sleep without medication, can't leave the house without medication, who has a failed relationship and a house full of paintings. And a cat.

I'm kind of not okay with that.

(I love the part where she's an artist! I wish she'd been a hugely successful artist, famous, even, and realized how empty that fame was on account of a piece she didn't know was missing. I wish her relationship with John had ended in fire. I wish...I wish she hadn't ever taken the pills!)

She's not Helen any more. I want her to be Helen. Even if she doesn't have the Sanctuary. I want her to love her house, not be a prisoner there. In the real world, Helen got over Ashley. It took some time, and it flares up every now and then, but she's pushing on. This Helen, for whatever reason, is not and moreover, we don't know what it is she's not pushing on from. And I don't like it.

Lorazepam, if taken incorrectly or for too long, causes anxiety, insomnia, seizures and aggression. Yes, for those of you paying attention, it causes exactly what it's taken to treat. But most interesting is what else it does. It's an amnesic. It prevents a person from forming new memories.

(Sidebar: this is, I believe, the first appearance of lorazepam in Sanctuary. Prior to this, they've pretty much used diazepam exclusively. The primary difference is that diazepam also serves as a muscle relaxant. Henry probably took it as a sedative, though, and in "Haunted" they use it to calm a seizure. It probably doesn't mean anything.)

Let us assume, then, that Will was easier to trap in a dream world for the simple fact that his life is smaller than Helen's. I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it quite literally. Helen's life is enormous, and making her forget it would take some doing. Also, her idea of "bliss" probably doesn't make much sense, and that's if she even has one. She can't comprehend John without the Ripper anymore, she's come too far. Will hasn't. He's stopped dreaming about the picket fence, but he hasn't forgotten it.

Maybe that's why dream!Helen needed the drugs. To blot her out, to stop her from remembering what was happening around her so that she wouldn't question it. Maybe they're the corporeal manifestation of how hard she fought to get out of the tank (actually, now that I've thought that, I kind of like it...except John wanted her to not take them, so...maybe he wanted her to accept her situation so they could dial down the dose? I have got to learn where to draw the line when it comes to overthinking...).

What I'm getting at is that I wish they hadn't made Helen so miserable, particularly given Henry's use of the word "paradise" at the end of the episode (sidebar: one of my other theories is that the idea of being in paradise only works until they're healed, at which point they need to get out and no one wants to leave paradise, in theory, so there has to be a shift. Except John and Abby (who I assume are the creature) fought to keep them in. So my real problem was that there was no literal representation of what Henry and Kate were doing, no real triggers that said things like "Okay guys! It's time to get out now!" Helen and Will had to do it by themselves. Which is fine, really, but not particularly cohesive with a "but it was the good guys all along" narrative. I'm not saying I wanted Picard with his Dickensian family in the Nexus either, but...surely there's a middle ground somewhere. And, really, the reason Kirk finally leaves the Nexus is really, really cool and I totally wouldn't have minded if Sanctuary had stolen it). Because Helen deserves paradise too, and the episode made her look like she's never going to get it, and that makes me sad.

"Out of the Blue" showed us a Helen who never got to choose the Underworld, who never became Persephone Descended, and who was made miserable and directionless as a result. It gave us a Helen who is separated from John, who takes her pills and shuts everyone out of her life. There are things that are wrong in Will's fake!life, I get that, but Helen's fake!life just seems so bleak, and the fact that she takes the pills, the fact that in some fanfics she has to take the pills, just...feels wrong to me.

I think that's really what left me so unsettled about this episode. Everyone was kind of themselves...except Helen. And I don't like that because it suggests that real!Helen has more self-doubt than I like to think she does. I like the version of Helen that owns the world, which ever world that happens to be, and I didn't get to see that in "Out of the Blue", and I don't know why I didn't get to see it, and I don't know what that means.

I have way more conflicted feelings about this episode than I'd planned to. I wanted to take it at face value, and I mostly did until I started reading the fanfic, but now I can't and I'm not sure how I feel about it anymore.

Thoughts?

Comments

[shadadukal]

It took some time, and it flares up every now and then, but she's pushing on. This Helen, for whatever reason, is not and moreover, we don't know what it is she's not pushing on from. And I don't like it.

This is a good point.

no literal representation of what Henry and Kate were doing, no real triggers that said things like "Okay guys! It's time to get out now!" Helen and Will had to do it by themselves. Which is fine, really, but not particularly cohesive with a "but it was the good guys all along" narrative.

You know, I think they could have done it without the surprise reveal at the end. If we'd seen Kate & Henry throughout discussing what danger Helen & Will, it could have been very interesting, and it would have avoided the 3 minutes of info dump at the end.

Because Helen deserves paradise too, and the episode made her look like she's never going to get it, and that makes me sad.

*nods* That would make me sad for any character I love.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I think what the whole things boils down to is that I have a problem with the structure of the episode (with regard to what was "good" and what was "bad"), and with the use of drugs/characterization of Helen in the resulting fanfic. I'm not sure I made it clear enough in the essay...but it's probably too late now. ;)

I was thinking about all the other shows that have done this (Buffy, Stargate Atlantis, Star Trek Generations...DS9 is probably The Best), and they're all "enemy" situations. This was a case of "friendlies", but they invested so much in the reveal that it fell apart in other places.

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

I am just looking at this as someone with experience dealing with anxiety medications, which it appears is the main reason why Helen is taking lorazepam, and it actually rang quite true for me watching this episode. I would also like to mention that anxiety is not only a psychological problem, but a physical one as well (not that I am going to get into the brain chemistry stuff here).

But I have real, real trouble believing she was ever addicted to anything

From what I saw in the episode, it did not appear to me that Helen was addicted to the lorazepam. If anything, the only time she was showed to be misusing the drug was when she and Will doped themselves in order to awaken in the real world.

Except in terms of Ashley. Who does not exist in "Out of the Blue". If Ashley had been there, had been killed in a hit and run or died of cancer, I'd have bought the lorazepam in "Out of the Blue" without a moment's hesitation. Drugs in lieu of a zombie apocalypse, I guess. But there was no Ashley, there was never an Ashley, and I can't think why Helen needed the drugs

I would think divorce could be reason enough for this Helen to reach for the anxiety medication. I recall John saying something that suggested that this was not her first time using, suggesting that she may have suffered bouts of depression during their marriage.

It is not for anyone other than the person and their doctor to judge whether medication such as this is required. I certainly do not see this Helen as any less for needing help.

Insomnia is a symptom of anxiety disorders so her behaviour in this is perfectly understandable. Whether this has spread to a form of agoraphobia was never suggested. She obviously works from home and she can drive her car about perfectly fine. We also do not know the extent of the 'world' in which the creature and her mind created. What if it only encompassed that little street and the stretch of road? We simple do not know. Will could never remember the specifics of working at the hospital (the heart procedure stuff seemed like planted information) and we never saw Will and Abby leave or return.

She's not Helen any more. I want her to be Helen.

Of course she's not Helen. And Will wasn't Will either. She is the sum of her experiences, of her life. And this Helen is one that did what she thought she was supposed to - she got married, she never had a child (perhaps this John didn't want kids, who knows?) This Helen is suffering psychologically and done something to ease her pain. It may feel wrong for you to see, but I saw it as another layer lending itself to the realism of the episode.

As for this being 'bliss', perhaps the life Helen had made for herself with the Sanctuary is her 'paradise' (as wondrously imperfect as it may be), there could be nothing created for her that would be more so, so they had to go in the other direction and give her the most normal, mundane life she could imagine.

[angelqueen04.livejournal.com]

As for this being 'bliss', perhaps the life Helen had made for herself with the Sanctuary is her 'paradise' (as wondrously imperfect as it may be), there could be nothing created for her that would be more so, so they had to go in the other direction and give her the most normal, mundane life she could imagine.

You make a really good point here! And plus, we heard Helen say that she wanted a life where no one was looking to her to have all the answers, where she didn't have to have to have lives hanging in the balance, etc. Well, here she got that -- she's responsible for herself and no more.

[oparu.livejournal.com]

I think one of my issues with the show and drugs is that even when the show does them correctly, then they're out there and fandom dials them up to 11 and makes them crazy.

Especially this fandom, for some reason. I've backbuttoned way more Henry and drugs fic than I care to, and I'd really rather not have that become a theme with Helen. The show presented the meds in a reasonable way, fanfic is struggling with them a bit more. Which makes me a little shifty eyed.

[naiad8.livejournal.com]

I believe that the drugs were more for insomnia than anything else. And I don't think she was addicted, as she seemed to argue with herself about using them at all. Also, when she did use them, she woke up each time in the real world. I believe the drugs were actually her brain's way of finding an out from this reality.

And I take a more hopeful bent. I believe that Helen's bliss is in fact, the Sanctuary Network. For all the pain and strife and struggle, she's worked damn hard to build this beautiful thing. Without it, she's fragile and lost and hopeless. So, it's not that Helen can't find her bliss. It's that she already has.

[tafkarfanfic.livejournal.com]

I actually took the opposite view. In the real world, each of them was completely trapped. Somehow, their psyches joined together to create a joint illusion.

The way Helen's mind replicated the trapped feeling was with crippling anxiety, because she clearly cannot see many other ways that she could really be trapped.

The way Will envisions being trapped is...being married with a baby on the way. I think it says a lot of how Will really sees domesticity - and more importantly, a lot of NEGATIVE things about how Will really sees domesticity on a deep level. (Also, I'm willing to bet that Will's mind is the one that created the illusion of suburbia, and Helen's mind just created the one thing that could possibly leave her trapped there.)

[ceilidh]

The way Will envisions being trapped is...being married with a baby on the way. I think it says a lot of how Will really sees domesticity - and more importantly, a lot of NEGATIVE things about how Will really sees domesticity on a deep level.

Yeah. I think family is really a completely foreign concept for Will, since he only had his mom and then only for a very short time. So on the surface it might appear to be domestic bliss, but having the nice house/fancy car/high status job/wife-and-baby kind of life isn't really what he wants.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

See, and I would have taken that...if not for Kate's use of the word "bliss" at the end!

[samjohnsson.livejournal.com]

Two quick thoughts - the drug use by Helen: those created realities seemed to be as opposite as possible from the real world. (Which explains the 'hate' for John, but it says bizarre things about Will's relationship to Abby.)

How much did Kate know about what their realities looked like - would she know that it was supposed to be bliss?

The ep, in its way, was very Turn Left in its feel.

[fallon-ash.livejournal.com]

Yet again you've said a lot of things that I agree with but just failed to articulate as well.

"I love the part where she's an artist! I wish she'd been a hugely successful artist, famous, even, and realized how empty that fame was on account of a piece she didn't know was missing."

YES!

"I have way more conflicted feelings about this episode than I'd planned to."

Yes!

A few thoughts:

Does lorazepam actually do what you say it does, or is it just something it can do? In my experience of both family and friends who take different pills for various things, nothing has been more obvious than the fact that everyone's reaction is extremely individual. I have a close family member who has taken one of the other *zepams for way longer than recommended because it's the only thing they've managed to come up with that lets her sleep at night, and she suffers none of the side effects (yet).

I haven't read any of the post-ep fics yet, but I can't say I had issues with the way the pills were used in the episode proper. My take on them was that they were a manifestation of the matrix to make her think something is wrong with HER instead of the with world around her, so she would question herself instead of the matrix.

Another thing I took issue with was the fact that the women were given lives of smaller significance than their real-life counterparts, whereas the men were given professions of high status and assumed to be among among the most brilliant in them. In both their relationships the main issue was the Man and his Work - Abby spends her time supporting Will being a heart surgeon with no mention of her own life, whereas with Helen&John they give him quite a career and imply that their troubles had to do with his job, and her life and work is something of a quaint little hobby to him.

What I would have liked to see was actually Ashley instead of John. Most of Will's issues stemmed from his work, not his life with Abby, so give Will the moderately satisfying life he has with Abby, and then give Helen Ashley - that to me would really have given this episode long-lasting poignancy, if Helen came out of it with vivid images of Ashley being alive and happy and healthy and them doing kick-ass stuff together, and then Ashley pounding on the window in the final matrix-scene crying 'Mom, please don't leave...'.

Huh, this turned into something that didn't have much to do with your post. But thanks for making me think! Always fun!

[shadadukal]

give Helen Ashley - that to me would really have given this episode long-lasting poignancy, if Helen came out of it with vivid images of Ashley being alive and happy and healthy and them doing kick-ass stuff together, and then Ashley pounding on the window in the final matrix-scene crying 'Mom, please don't leave...'.

That would have been something, and a way to bring back Ashley without resurrecting her, which is something they said they wanted to do.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

OH GOD, if it had been Ashley in the window scene I might have died...

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

"Out of the Blue" showed us a Helen who never got to choose the Underworld, who never became Persephone Descended, and who was made miserable and directionless as a result.

Yes, exactly, and I think that's the point.

That's the dark side of Persephone. When Persephone wins through her trials, she becomes the Queen of the Underworld. When she doesn't, like a couple of friends I dearly loved in college, like my mother, she becomes a denizen of the Underworld herself, and a source of misery to herself and everyone around her. When Athena loses she goes out in a blaze and everyone says it was tragic she died so young. Persephone doesn't die young. She turns into that crazy woman. She turns into the alcoholic parent, the abusive spouse, the addicted-to-recovery woman in her fourth marriage whose children aren't speaking to her, the still living with roommates fifty year old who one of these days is going to do something amazing and creative and one day her life will start. She's the one who was so talented, so promising at twenty, and somehow at forty there are all these reasons why she hasn't got it together.

That's the tragedy of the failed Persephone. God it hurts! It's terrible to see Helen like that. But I think that's inherent in the archetype. That's the pitfall. It's the dark side potential, ironically because she didn't embrace darkness. Our Helen loved Jack the Ripper and lived in a house full of monsters. This Helen loved a lawyer and lived in the suburbs.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I do kind of understand that half of the archetype, but at the same time I wish that this version of Helen had found a way around it. I tend to see Helen as Athene until she takes the source blood, at which point she becomes Persephone Descended, so to watch her find no joy in what was clearly a successful artistic career was hard for me. (It turns out I'm a very entitled fan. Who knew?) The episode suggested that Helen is nothing without the Sanctuary, and even given episodes like "Next Tuesday", I like to think of her as more than the sum of her parts.\

[angelqueen04.livejournal.com]

Well, there is a possible explanation for why Helen's 'paradise' was so, well, miserable, but it would probably count as one of the Mothers of all Hand-Waves, I think.

Look at Will. In basics, he's kind of Everyman, but with an really exotic job. A normal human being, and thus ended up with a fairly normal fake life -- great job, house, wife, kid on the way.

Helen, on the other hand, isn't a normal human being. Technically, she is an Abnormal herself, because of the vampire blood. Maybe, and this is just me throwing this out there, the stuff the big worm Abnormal dosed her with didn't intermix very well with Helen's vampiric traits, and that's why her fantasy life was such a mess? Her brain is struggling to make sense of what it's showing her and the conflict resulted in the life she was leading -- literally the neighborhood eccentric cat lady, with a broken marriage, no children, and pretty much a broken life.

Perhaps, if she had been like Will, a physically normal human being, we would have had her with a fairly happy life -- Ashley still alive and kicking ass (albeit possibly in college or something), John healthy and completely de-Ripperized, and her with a job that she found just as fulfilling as her work in the Sanctuary. Though, if that was the case, would she and Will started to see the holes in their fantasy lives?

So I guess what I'm saying is -- maybe Helen's vampire blood saved the day again, even if they didn't outright say so?

Also, one comment about John: I love how you say that Helen can't see John without seeing the Ripper too. So very true. But in Helen's fantasy, while the two were linked, we saw John conquering the Ripper, as it were, prosecuting him and such. That might actually be considered one of the happiest moments in the fantasy, something Helen would have loved dearly to see -- John overcoming the Ripper.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

something Helen would have loved dearly to see -- John overcoming the Ripper.

I'm not so sure. I'm not sure that Helen can deal with John without the Ripper. Too much water under the bridge, and so on. That's part of why I think her dream didn't work: part of her brain thinks she'd be happy with John, but the REAL part of her brain knows she's beyond that.

(There's a whole other post here about how this is the first time I've ever had an OTP that I actually hope never gets together, because I think it would be a terrible thing, but I'm saving that for later.)

That's kind of what I meant by saying that Helen's life was bigger than Will's. Will's concept of paradise is still simple, still programmed by the "real" world, even if it's not something he consciously wants (and I don't think it is). Helen's gone beyond that, and her subconscious isn't clear what to do with it yet.

[dbalthasar.livejournal.com]

Hm, I assumed that Helen was in fact a successful artist: she has an agent who is able to sell her work even without gallery shows, and when she tells the agent that she's abandoning a series, the agent tries to talk her out of it. To me, those are markers of success, not failure.

And the lorazepam didn't bother me. Something had to trap her, to keep her in the dream, and it seemed fitting that it was Helen herself who held herself back. There's not much else that can stop Helen. (Whereas I find it really sad that Will is trapped by his understanding of Domesticity.)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I meant more comfortable as a successful artist. She didn't seem to own it, and I am used to Helen owning things.

In two comments, I, um, rant a little bit -_-;

[icarus-chained.livejournal.com]

*rubs face* Okay. Gimme a minute to get my thoughts in order, and forgive me if I don't quite manage it, yes? To warn you, I have been taking anxiety and other medications for most of my adult life, so I can be ... somewhat opinionated, here. Also, I haven't seen the fanfic side of this, so I'm just going on what I saw in the episode.

She's too driven and hyper-focused for that, I think, and when she tries to blot out the world, she does it through work. Or, you know, with a pistol.

Exactly. Exactly. The dream world Helen's in, it's Helen in our world. In the world without abnormals and Sanctuaries, where she's not 100+ years old, where she's a normal woman who has to find normal ways of coping with her problems. Helen in that world can't turn to what she usually does, because it's all be taken away. She can't pull a pistol and go shoot monsters, because that would get her arrested and possibly committed in very short order. She can't turn to her work (or perhaps she could, if painting really meant something to her, but she doesn't seem to have subconsciously accepted it as a proper substitute), can't immerse herself in something to drive away the pain.

And she's still in pain. Given the way Will seems to fritz between memories, of the real world and here, given her little 'I want people to stop clawing at me' outburst, it's entirely likely that, at least subconsiously, she's still dealing with all the pain she is in the real world. But in the dream world, she has no outlet for it. In the dream world, she's a normal woman, forced to do normal things to combat anxiety, and perhaps a degree of PTSD, and insomnia, and vivid dream-hallucinations of another world that won't leave her alone.

In our world, when you have those problems, you go to a doctor. And you get a prescription. Sometimes you reject them, sometimes you refuse them, but most of them time, with those problems, you get given drugs. And, if you're very, very lucky, and they're the right drugs, and you take them properly, without abuse, then things will start improving.

And what's Helen without the Sanctuary? A broken, fragile woman, who can't sleep without medication, can't leave the house without medication, who has a failed relationship and a house full of paintings. And a cat.

That's not ... quite the case. Helen in the dream world is a Helen who partially remembers having the Sanctuary, who is still subconsciously dealing with the pain she encountered with the Sanctuary, as well as dream-world pains like her divorce and John haunting her, and a job that seems to mean very little to her, who is dealing with all of that, but is given no outlet for it save what would be available in our world. No job to turn to, no wars to fight, nothing in which to drown her pain. So she went and did what people in our world often do. She went to a doctor.

There's no evidence she can't leave the house. There's no evidence she's addicted or abusing her prescription, either. She uses it to sleep, which, since that's part of what it's prescribed for, I see no problem with. About the only indication that might possibly mean abuse/addiction is John's expression when he sees the med, and I took that as more disappointment at this tangible proof that she is, probably yet again, suffering another bout of depression. The disappointment was not John in her taking medication, it was John in her once again being in a place where she needed medication. Helen on medication is Helen using a tool to enable her to function better, which is entirely a Helen thing to do.

Re: In two comments, I, um, rant a little bit -_-;

[icarus-chained.livejournal.com]

Add to that what naiad8 said above, that the medication was putting her to sleep, during which she saw the real world, and may in fact have been just more proof that Helen's mind was fighting that world any way it could, a tool in more than one sense, and I really don't see a problem with Helen using medication. Especially since, in the end, it helped them escape that world. It was a tool, in-world and out, consciously within the dream and subconsciously to get out of it, and Helen has always made use of whatever she could lay her hands on.

Medication is not a sign of weakness, or of a broken woman. Medication is a sign of Helen Magnus dealing with her problems as best each world allows, and yes, it's impossibly difficult to see the Helen Magnus we're used to in a world that looks like ours, and having to realise that, here, she would probably be forced to deal with things very, very differently, but the fact is, medication is just another tool, and a proper one at that.

As for why Helen doesn't own the dream world as she owns the real one ... I think the key to that is in her happiness speech. Helen's happiness is in striving, in working, in fighting, and given what the dream-world is, what it was induced by, I don't think that could be allowed. The dream-world is a soporific, for the creature first, to calm its prey, and for the others after, to keep Helen under until the venom/stuff ran its course. It was meant to be Helen safe, Helen asleep, Helen not-fighting, coddled in suburbia and kept safe until it was time to bring her out.

Except for Helen, that was a nightmare in and of itself, a nightmare of being trapped somewhere that had no meaning, unable to fight. In a way, too, that might have been intended, at least by the others. It was a dream so bland and perfect that eventually it would have to be rejected, simply because neither Helen nor Will are that kind of person anymore, so they were making sure the pair of them would come out of it on their own eventually. They just miscalculated, and thought it would take longer, because they underestimated just how much both Helen and Will would reject it.

*blinks a bit* And apologies for the ... rather lengthy rant. *smiles sheepishly* I told you I was opinionated ...

[shadadukal]

Another thought I've had. Helen's fantasy doesn't work because Helen is out of time. A normal Helen belongs in the 19th century and early 20th century. By the 21st century, Helen is satisfied with her existence, minus some things like Ashley and John's state. You could say Will's bliss is something he may have dreamed of as a kid or what society tells him he should want/is the ideal.

But for Helen, that doesn't compute. What she probably dreamed of a child/young woman, before she was introduced to her father's world, was to be a doctor, at a time where it was unlikely for her to be so. Failing that, the society's ideal for her at the time would have been to be a wife and mother.

In the 21st century, she has no ideal life other than what she lives, with only the addition of Ashley and a cured John.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Another thought I've had. Helen's fantasy doesn't work because Helen is out of time.

Yeah, I did think of that, but left it out entirely because I was trying not to write a novel. ;)

[mrsm1th.livejournal.com]

Actually, you bring up a good point about how it seems rather unfair that Will's got a pretty fantastic life, and Magnus' is so bleak.

What I had gotten from that episode, was that in both of their situations, their lives made them complacent. I mean, it's Will's dreamworld with a wife and a baby and all that-- something he'd not give up in a heartbeat. I've always seen him as a man dedicated to his obligations and in his little dreamworld the worm thing has given him the perfect ones to care about. If this worm can create a dreamworld, I'm fairly certain that it could read minds, too.

This is the reason why Helen's seems to be the antithesis of Will's. This is Helen freaking Magnus we're talking about. She once put a beetle in the back of her brain to hide from telepaths. She is amazing. And bliss would make her completely and totally unhappy. She'd question it, travel, constantly be her true questioning self until she came to that realization that the world isn't real and would try her hardest to get out. The worm doesn't want that. It want's to eat them. So, realistically, it's made a scenario that would keep them 'still' the most.

The worm has used Magnus' own knowledge against her. It traps her with insomnia or anxiety and pills and a husband that won't divorce her and a need to not leave the house, instead paint pictures and live in solitude. It doesn't want her to talk to Will, it doesn't want her exploring the idea that maybe her life isn't real.

[jemster.livejournal.com]

I mean, it's Will's dreamworld with a wife and a baby and all that--

I personally think it would have been awesome if the wife in his perfect life had been someone other than Abby since it would have freaked him out he would have questioned that back in the real world. That, and the fact I don't like the character of Abby. Yeah, that might have something to do with it.

[oparu.livejournal.com]

I disagree with most of fandom in that Helen's not trapped in her house, she just doesn't have a reason to go anywhere. We only saw her for a few days, and you can go a few days without buying groceries. If you're an introvert and you work at home, it's entirely normal not to leave your house for a few days.

I think the idea is that Will's life is perfect is skewed somehow. Either the writers were trying to get at the American Beauty ideal that life in the suburbs is somehow empty, missing something, or Will's mind is trying to tell him how to get out slowly. He seemed to have issues with anxiety too, as I think most people would in a 'perfect' life that wasn't real. I think the mind knows.

Will wants a family, so he gets that but it's wrong somehow. Somewhere, in the back of her mind, Helen wants to be free from her responsibilities (which are insanely tough things). So, the compound, whatever it is, gives her that and she's absolutely alone. No one relies on her, she's independent. She has the option of being with John, who she loved/loves/hates and being with him in a way she's never been with him in the real world.

Will's last temptation is a wife and child. Helen's is love without distractions. No Ripper, no abnormals, just her and John, going anywhere and seeing anything. Helen's trap is freedom, in a way.

Fanfiction turning that into the dramah of Helen and her pills just doesn't work for me.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I disagree with most of fandom in that Helen's not trapped in her house, she just doesn't have a reason to go anywhere.

I didn't really see it either, until I started reading the fic. I almost never leave the house, for example, and I'm perfectly happy.

I didn't really focus too much on Will (because if I did then I'd have to focus on Abby and how the writers are MESSING WITH MY FBI AGENT!), but yes: you're right. I just don't understand the need fic. ;)

[they-regrey.livejournal.com]

Um, hi, I've been lurking on Live Journal for a while and this discussion is fascinating and has finally pushed me into creating an account and attempting to participate. I hope you don't mind too much.
I haven't really read much post-ep fanfiction for this, but I didn't get the impression from the episode that Helen was stuck in her house, just that she didn't have much reason to leave it.

I also got the impression from this episode that Helen's idea of happiness is very complex. I think she actually said at some point (paraphrasing) that happiness wasn't the only important thing in life, so maybe because of her mixed up views on the subject whatever the worm did to her brain gave her subconscious mind a 'does not compute' moment because the sort of pure, unquestioning happiness it's supposed to give just doesn't work within the parameters of who Helen is and what she's experienced.

We also know that she doesn't like getting very close to people because she knows she's going to lose them and cause herself more pain. Maybe her outburst about people "clawing at her" and the fact that she doesn't have a daughter or mention the rest of the Five and is separated from John are a manifestation of that? So much of the pain in Helen's life comes from her (sometimes unhealthy) emotional connections with others that it's possible she might just wish that she wasn't so tied to other people. The 'freedom' she wants could more emotional than anything else.

That was supposed to make sense. It did in my head? Sorry for the massive post.

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Welcome! :)

*takes a moment to do a victory dance on account of having posted a meta that made someone get an account*

I think she actually said at some point (paraphrasing) that happiness wasn't the only important thing in life

This was actually one of my favourite parts of the episode. I edited out about 15 things when writing this post (because it was a thesis if I didn't), and that's one thing that got cut for time. But I think you're right: her definition of happy isn't even really happy so much as it's...something else. Which is totally fine with me (and kind of awesome, as I said above).

Mostly this post was a response to what I see in fanfic (or what I'm afraid I might see in fanfic), and is actually a small part of a Helen/John post I am thinking of (which might itself be a small part of another post, but I have to stop somewhere!).

Somewhat hilariously, I took the "clawing" line literally. Like, "There are things with claws and sometimes they hit me, and sometimes I just want to not get hit by things with claws", but that might just be my own twisted sense of humour.

[openended.livejournal.com]

I think the reason most people (myself included) went the anxiety route with the lorazepam is because the prescription explicitly said "as needed for anxiety" and we had that major closeup on it. "As needed" drugs tend to have a "for xyz" attached to the prescription, mostly for legality reasons but I assume also so patients (who weren't paying attention when the doctor prescribed it? idk) and anyone who might need to deal with them knows what the heck it's for. At least, I assume that's why most fic dealing with it goes in the anxiety direction rather than the sedative direction.

With that said, I definitely would've preferred if it had been for insomnia. Insomnia and Helen I can understand. But anxiety and Helen I really can't. Not in any world, real or imagined. She's so in control of everything all the time that I understand her outburst of wanting everyone to leave her alone and to not deal with life or death situations...but I cannot believe that there would be any situation out there where Helen would need anxiety meds to function. And given that Will got his "bliss," or at least what seemed like a perfect world for him, I found it really strange and unsettling that Helen got something so...not perfect. She was living alone, trying to get her (ex)husband to sign divorce papers, and taking anti-anxiety meds. I'm not sure what her "bliss" is or should be, but I'm pretty sure it's not that. It's a really unsettling implication that she no longer knows what her own happiness is.

Which, come to think of it, John points out to her.

So my real problem was that there was no literal representation of what Henry and Kate were doing, no real triggers that said things like "Okay guys! It's time to get out now!" Helen and Will had to do it by themselves. Which is fine, really, but not particularly cohesive with a "but it was the good guys all along" narrative.

This bugged me a lot. And probably led to my general hatred of the last three minutes of the episode (i.e., "Where the hell did that explanation come from?").

Abby and John showing up just as Helen and Will were about to leave to drive off a cliff made it seem like there was something much more sinister at work: Helen and Will were fine when they got out despite earlier indications that Abby and John were there to hold them to the dream world while Helen and Will got better. So if Helen and Will were okay and it was time for them to leave...why did the two people that were supposed to anchor them to that life show up to convince them to stay?

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I may have failed to really pay attention to any details while John was on screen on account FREAKING THE HECK OUT the entire time. ;)

This bugged me a lot. And probably led to my general hatred of the last three minutes of the episode (i.e., "Where the hell did that explanation come from?").

Exactly. This ep would have worked much better as a mystery, that we got to solve along with Will and Helen, then it did as a thriller (and it was even called "Out of the Blue"! They could have so done something with that and they didn't. I don't understand these people sometimes!). As with most Kindler written episodes, it could have done with one more editing pass, but it was still a good ep, for the most part. If nothing else, I can't wait to see what happens tonight! :)

[a_blackpanther]

I agree with you on why the drugs were there in Helen's dream, to me that is the only possible explanation. She had to be sedated in her own dream to stay there.

What I disagree with is the last part. Helen's dream-life is bleak because most people's version of Paradise is Hell for her. What I got out of the episode is that Helen would never trade the life she's had for one someone may deem idealistic.

And that's so very in character for her. Even from the start she refused to conform to societal norms in the 1800's where she would have been expected to be a housewife. It's probably why John, Tesla and James all fell in love with her.

Anyway, the point is, that in spite of what happened to Ashley, the loss of John and her father and many other hardships she's already happy doing what she does and the picket fence dream is more like her won personal hell. She couldn't be happy in her dream because she's already happy outside.

I think Will may not have ever woken up if Helen wasn't there.

(Sorry if this is random got here via the Sanctuary newsletter)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

No worries. Randomness is encouraged.

What I don't understand is that the dream world was supposed to be of Helen's own construct, or at least she should have shared construction with Will. So...WHY IS SHE STILL SO MISERABLE? She should have had complete control, in the initial phase of the dream. And...I don't understand why it ended up with her being this unhappy (or rather, I could get it, except it says things about real!Helen that I don't like much).

I think Will may have woken up eventually...but I don't think he would have driven the car off the cliff. That was another favourite scene of mine: even when he knows, he still can't do it. Helen has to do it for him.

[katriel1987.livejournal.com]

OH MY GOSH, HI!

Okay, before you think I'm a weird stalker, this is the Person Formerly Known As Katerina17. Back in the day, you were an awesome beta and always caught my foreign-language mistakes when I was writing for SG-1. (I'm actually a linguist now, believe it or not!) Imagine my surprise at discovering you on lj--and not only that, we share a fandom again! \o/ Sanctuary isn't my primary fandom but I enjoy the heck out of it.

Anyway, sorry for randomly dropping in on your Helen discussion... just, hi!

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

HI YOURSELF!

(I actually went through a bit of a nostalgia phase for SG-1 a couple weeks ago writing the recap for "Ripple Effect" and went back looking for some of my classic favourites, one of which is always going to be the story I poked you until you finished...) :)

Sanctuary has totally taken over my life, but feel free to poke around and friend me if you like. There's always room for old friends.