grav_ity: (women and geeks first)
[personal profile] grav_ity
I meant to say this a couple weeks ago but I got distracted. ;)

Sanctuary has a long history of presenting female characters that are kind of awesome and then having them disappear or turn out to be really annoying. I find this frustrating under the best circumstances, but in Sanctuary it bugs me EVEN MORE because they show often sets up really awesome female characters, and then completely fails to deliver on their greatness. We've lost the empath from "Nubbins", for example, and though I can only assume Ranna will be back, who knows when that will happen. And that's only the tip of the iceberg (and doesn't include the people who are dead).

All of this is a prelude to me admitting that I really, really wanted to like Abby Corigan.

When we meet her, she's a bit nervous. But this is kind of understandable. She's tracking down a guy she hasn't seen in years who may very well not remember her, said guy had something of a Sketchy Reputation back in the day, and the place she finds him in also has a sketchy reputation. In addition, an electo-magnetic freakazoid tries to undress her in the foyer (Dear Nikola, I love you, you know this. But not your best moment, I think.)

What's important to keep in mind is that this woman is really serious about her job. Serious enough to dog a case where the pieces don't quite fit and smart enough to take a chance on the one person who might be able to help her, even though it's kind of against her better judgement. And when we see her in the alleyway with her gun at the end of the episode, she looks the part.

At the time, I was kind of hoping she'd turn out to be evil. Particularly because she never got less awkward and I figured it had to be some kind of front. Abby would have graduated from Quantico, after all, and even Spencer Reid can shelve the awkward (sometimes) when he's on a job. She didn't, of course, and the plot line got all nicely tied up in a bow, like they do on this show, and I just assumed we'd never see her again.

When I heard she was coming back, I was tentatively pleased. Then I found out that she was coming back to go on a date with Will, and I was less pleased. Then the episode itself started with an excess of fake accents, and I nearly shut it off all together. And then everything kind of fell apart.

Somehow, Abby changed from this competent FBI agent who realized immediately that she was the leverage and was not okay with that to this SUPREME IDIOT who, though she gets points for trying, follows up every good decision she makes with a bad one, culminating in her COMPLETELY INEXPLICABLE decision to throw the scorpion at her captor and then run back to the warehouse where Will is being held without calling for help first.

Now, one might assume (and I certainly did) that Will's plan had never really been for Abby to escape. Instead, her purchases of Red Listed items would just send up enough flags to get the Sanctuary's attention. Except it becomes clear that that was Will's fallback plan, and that Abby was in fact supposed to use the scorpion to get away. By not doing that, and certainly by not finding a payphone before going back to save Will (which I would have been fine with, btw, because I do like it when Will gets saved by his female co-stars), Abby transforms from a half-way decent supporting character to a COMPLETE NINNY.

I haaaaate ninnies.

I understand that not everyone is going to be equally amazing, but, seriously, don't make her an FBI agent in the first place if you're going to turn her into a useless character who exists completely to give Will something to date.

(I should add that I never did watch "Wingman", so I have no idea if she was made completely irredeemable in that episode. I hope not, but I don't like my chances.)

The true failure here is in the writing, I think. I mentioned in my Kate Meta that my overwhelming impression is that the writers don't know what to do with their characters once they've got them, and I think it's very true of Abby. She could have been really awesome, and an excellent professional/romantic foil for Will. Instead, she's nothing of the sort, and that drives me batty because I wanted to like her. I hate being forced to settle for "well, at least they didn't kill her off to give Will angst". This show is supposed to be better that that.

I think I'm going to put her in my Big Bang, along with the empath from Nubbins, just to be obstinate. She can have conversations like:

Abby: Vampires?
Will: It's a long story.
Abby: Like that creepy guy who tried to undress me in the foyer?
Will: ...it's a long story.

*plots*

Date: 2011-05-30 07:32 pm (UTC)
ext_18106: (Default)
From: [identity profile] lyssie.livejournal.com
by not finding a payphone b

WHAT PAYPHONE? There are no payphones anywhere, these days. I know, I tried to find one when my car ran out of gas and I had to hike all over the place to get gas into it.

Everyone has a cell phone.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:33 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (writing)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I did think of that...but I'm pretty sure we've seen payphones in Old City, haven't we? It's more an expression than anything. ;)

Date: 2011-05-30 07:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penknife.livejournal.com
Given that she was in a market surrounded by other people, you'd think she could ask to use somebody's phone, or ask someone to call the police and/or the Sanctuary (especially when we've just established that a lot of the vendors deal with the Sanctuary). Surely in a crowded marketplace ... oh, well, I shouldn't dwell.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:57 pm (UTC)
ext_18106: (Default)
From: [identity profile] lyssie.livejournal.com
I haven't really seen any, so I don't know. She could have run into a store/hotel/etc. and tried to find a phone, though. Or asked someone.

To be honest, though, I think the Sanctuary writers are absolutely awful at writing female characters, so it doesn't surprise me when they can't manage to write one well.

It's the reason I only catch up when I'm so bored I have nothing else to watch.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] penknife.livejournal.com
Abby is ... okay in Wingman. She gets on my nerves, but not for any reason other than that she's aggressively normal, which I find unappealing. She does, at one point, dramatically fall down and sprain her ankle; it is understandable that one might do this while running around the sewers in high heels, and understandable that one might want to wear high heels for a date, but you would think that date #1 would have convinced Abby that it was a good idea to stash a pair of sneakers in the car. (It looks for a moment like she's left her phone on RING REALLY LOUDLY while trying to sneak around quietly, but it turns out that wasn't actually her fault -- Henry screwed up her phone while trying to use it to do mad science with.)

I just didn't find her interesting or appealing, and I felt like it added insult to injury that Erika was ten times more charming and interesting as a character than Abby was in Wingman, and she's the one who ended up leaving.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
I second the bit about Erica. She's fascinating. She can stay.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:58 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
Erika was way more interesting than Abby, by a factor of infinity, and I hate that Erika left and Abby stayed.

Date: 2011-05-30 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] querulouspeg.livejournal.com
She'll leave soon enough, when she finds out about the unspeakable depravity that Helen and Will engage in together :P

Date: 2011-05-30 09:12 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (sanctuary: Magnus and Will)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
;D

Date: 2011-05-30 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
word to this rant and all it's goodness. I have faith you shall write things better than they are at the moment.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] feronia.livejournal.com
I have seen her referred to as many things but my favorite is Abbey McAnnoying.

I think she is pretty much there because at the moment it seems much of the team are celibate. Nikola Tesla was famous for it, Magnus has just too much of a messy history to get involved with anyone, Biggie doesn't even have anyone of his own species around and Henry is just too adorable and completely mine. ;) Kate... Well, she doesn't seem the relationship type.

Will is the 'normal' one. He is the one that we, as the audience, are meant to be following and relating to. Having him never have a love interest outside of the Sanctuary world would be... weird. We all have lives outside work. I hope.

But having the protégé of Dr Helen Magnus, who Dr Watson trusted with his last words before he died, who has the amazing ability to analyze with someone who comes across as, well, a bit on the dull and dim side is.... Wrong. She can't even begin to compare to Helen, and I have no doubt Will has been seriously spoiled by his association with not only her but with Ashley, Kate, Rana, all of them in fact.

It's like she isn't part of that world, and just doesn't have the ability to be... So why bother?

Hope that made sense. Just finished work and am a bit tired.

Xx

Date: 2011-05-30 07:57 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
But having the protégé of Dr Helen Magnus, who Dr Watson trusted with his last words before he died, who has the amazing ability to analyze with someone who comes across as, well, a bit on the dull and dim side is.... Wrong. She can't even begin to compare to Helen, and I have no doubt Will has been seriously spoiled by his association with not only her but with Ashley, Kate, Rana, all of them in fact.

Yep. Agreed.

Date: 2011-05-30 07:56 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (sanctuary: Will facepalm)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
I really wanted to like Abby, and I did like her in Vigilante. I thought she was cute, she seemed like a hard worker (she was risking her job to find out what was going on) and she wasn't horrified by Big Guy when she found him after he got shot (which earned her bonus points from me).

But then One Night happened, and ugh. I got really mad that she went back after it was clear that Will intended to get her out of there, and I also was irritated with how she kept cutting Will down all through it. If you like him enough to go out on a date with him, why are you emasculating him? And in Wingman she seemed excessively silly and giggly, which irritated me. Will's been hanging out with too many awesome women (Helen, Ashley, Kate) lately to be attracted to someone so... eheeeheee *gigglegiggleswoon*. Bleh.

It irritates me, because I really wanted to like her.

Date: 2011-05-30 08:00 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (women and geeks first)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Yes! I meant to mention that her reaction to The Big Guy in Vigilante was a lot of reason I wanted to like her so much!

And yeah, I'm upset that they made her so annoying. I can't imagine why they thought it was a good idea. If they wanted Will to date someone "normal", they could still have him date someone remotely cool.

Date: 2011-05-30 09:14 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
I really liked her reaction to Biggie. Not, "oh my god what the hell are you," but "let me help you". So then, I thought she had promise.

Alas. Earwax.

Date: 2011-05-30 09:15 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (luna)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Best Disappointed Macro of all time, y/y?

Date: 2011-05-30 09:16 pm (UTC)
ceilidh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ceilidh
YES. DO BETTER, SANCTUARY. I AM DISAPPOINT.

;)

Date: 2011-05-30 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] openended.livejournal.com
I haven't seen Wingman either.

My main problem with Abby is that she doesn't seem to add anything. She doesn't illuminate some previously-hidden facet to Will's personality or make him a more interesting character. She doesn't deepen the plot or even provide handy escape options or solutions. She's just...there.

Even if they somehow turn her into this fantastic plot device (she's been watching the Russian Mafia and we know from Hero 2 that Helen has connections, and Abby is somehow planning to use Will's friendship and work with Helen to cut the Russian mob down at the knees; I don't know), I still don't think it would work. The whole ditzy girl thing doesn't make any sense at all (if she was all giggly and a ninny around Will and Will didn't know she was an FBI agent but we did because this is TV and sometimes that happens, then fine. BUT). Like you said - girl went to and graduated from Quantico. Personality away from the job is one thing, but this woman appears to be a total idiot.

Date: 2011-05-30 08:27 pm (UTC)
sholio: sun on winter trees (Tesla electricity)
From: [personal profile] sholio
In addition, an electo-magnetic freakazoid tries to undress her in the foyer

HAHAHAHAHAHA (I laugh because it is so true!)

Abby ... yeah ... unfortunately that episode was SO AWFUL that it made me swear off episodes that don't have Tesla in them for the time being, to preserve my sanity. (Actually, it was more like swearing off the whole show, but my willpower to avoid watching Tesla episodes is non-existent. *g*) I don't really blame Abby, I blame the writing, but unfortunately the writing makes her out to be an incompetent dingbat and, er, I have a competence kink. This? This is my anti-kink. And I agree that the root of the problem is that the writers don't know how to deal with their characters once they've got them. Abby's behavior would be understandable (though still not reflecting all that well on her) if she were, say, a coffee shop barista or something, who just got sucked into Will's crazy world of monsters and gangsters, and doesn't know how to deal with it. An FBI agent ... not so much.

Date: 2011-05-31 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
I agree!! FBI agents are a competent bunch. Even Spender was more on the ball than Abby. Abby should be more like Scully, or Monica Reyes.

Date: 2011-05-30 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] querulouspeg.livejournal.com
I found her irritating when we first met her, but warmed up to her in 'One Night' on the basis that she seems like a nice girl. And by nice girl, I mean total ditz. I cannot fathom how a trained FBI agent could behave in such an utterly pathetic manner in that situation.

And yes, it seems that as far as female characters go, the only one they really know how to make awesome is Magnus. Even Kate hasn't turned out to be as awesome as she has the potential to be. *sighs*

Date: 2011-05-30 10:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vindiya.livejournal.com
I have to say that when Abby appeared in Vigilante I was iffy on her. She was so pushy about wanting to know what Will was doing in the Sanctuary and what the Sanctuary actually was that it kind of drove me nuts. And then we got the infamous One Night. I spent the whole episode yelling at screen for the ridiculous unbelievability of them going on a date. There was never a single mention of Abby between Vigilante and One Night. A fact that I will admit they sort of remedied between One Night and Wingman by mentioning her in Metamorphosis, but still how does Will end up going on a date with a woman that is never mentioned again before her second appearance? Or even with a woman that he didn't even seem remotely interested in?

I actually enjoyed the scenes without Abby in Wingman more than the ones with her because she was probbing about his past through her psychological training which bugged me. Will is not someone she's investigating so I do not understand why that was necessary. And her reaction to finding out that Clara died was just so bleh, it was like she didn't really care just as long Will didn't turn out to be a player.

I don't know, I hope that with the episode order being dropped back down to 13 will make things a little less ridiculous. Or that at least we'll have less useless characters to see several times throughout the whole season.

Date: 2011-05-30 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] samjohnsson.livejournal.com
I'll be honest. I loved Abby when she was a tenacious FBI agent jumping into a world that she had no business being in. I did not love Abby when she became Will's performative heterosexuality. It does a disservice to both of them, but especially her.

I could go on and on, but that's what it boils down to.

Date: 2011-05-31 12:25 am (UTC)
jerusha: (will zimmerman)
From: [personal profile] jerusha
I think I might be the only person in the world who does not find Abby really, really annoying. I mean, I don't love her, but I don't hate her either. I'm just very neutral on the whole thing. But that might have something to do with my very neutral feelings on Will. He's probably my least favorite character (which isn't saying a ton, because I love the rest of them so much). But he's very normal, and Abby is very normal, and I'm okay with them being very normal together...as long as we get a lot more of everybody else being awesome to balance it all out.

(That said, when are we going to get more of Will's backstory? I think I would find him far more interesting if we just knew a little more other than: dead mother, father is...somewhere.)

Date: 2011-05-31 03:50 am (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : Nikola hides his face)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
You're not alone. I don't hate her either. But having two whole episodes focused on her and Will was too much. As you sadid, balance. This show doesn't do it well. And yes to Will's backstory.

Date: 2011-05-31 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
where is my Kate and Biggie episode? ;) does Kate date? Does she play Guitar Hero on weekends?

Date: 2011-05-31 08:17 pm (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : Nikola remembers Oxford)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
I want a Kate & Biggie ep for sure!

Date: 2011-05-31 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
I'm holding out hope!! :)

Date: 2011-05-31 03:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] threerings.livejournal.com
I couldn't agree more and said something very similar in my review of "Wingman." I'm going to be lazy and just C&P what I said then.

"And I want to say I dislike Abbey (that's her name!), but I don't really dislike the character so much as I dislike the way the actress is playing her, I think. I don't like her voice and the weird monotone she has when she's not freaking out about something. And then there's the Ew, I'm a Girl factor, which is annoying. But mostly, I just TOTALLY DON'T BUY her as an FBI behavior analyst. There's no hardness to her, and you don't get very far in law enforcement, criminal justice, or even behavioral sciences without developing toughness. (Unless you're purely research oriented, in the last case.) And that's what annoys me the most about her, I think. Because it touches on my own professional field, I can't suspend my disbelief. Even Will the Forensic Psychiatrist I bought more than her. "

Date: 2011-05-31 07:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maekala.livejournal.com
I am so glad I'm not the only one who had her pegged as the evil spy. Each time we see her, I hope that it's just set up to make the blow to Will's ego all the harder, but, eh? If nothing else, her becoming evil and suddenly becoming much more competent *might* make up for the complete inanity of her character thus far. Also, I might finally find her attractive.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:06 pm (UTC)
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Default)
From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
Right. I, too, like Abby. I like that she's normal, and I liked that when she was introduced, she was nervous but tenacious--she knew there were answers around the Sanctuary somewhere! I also thought she and Will clicked pretty well.

(I have to admit I had a soft spot for her from the beginning because of her giggling--I was a compulsive giggler and still do it sometimes, to my chagrin.)

I thought 'One Night' was a trainwreck of epic proportions, and it really made me mad that Abby, who came across as a little naive but competent in her first episode, suddenly came across as an idiot. 'Wingman' was slightly better, but not a whole lot. I do hope that they'll show more of her competence and less of her flailing in the future. Having her interact more with Magnus would probably be a good start. *g*

Date: 2011-05-31 06:20 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (head first)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I'm not sure I'll be able to get her into a room with Magnus, as Magnus will be busy being locked in a room with Nikola, but I have definite plans for Abby. She can probably help Mary Kelly who, I imagine, will probably need a good psychiatrist, and Will will have to stay in Old City and do paperwork or something. ;)

Date: 2011-05-31 06:23 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
Wait, Mary Kelly? Wasn't she one of Jack the Ripper's victims? The historical Jack. *researches* AHA! SHE IS!

I really can't wait to read this.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:27 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (ashley is nearly as cool as her mother)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Yes, yes she is! She's made a few appearances before (most notably in "The Monster and Mary Kelly", but also in "Whispers on the Edge of Dark", wherein she gives Helen the clue that allows her to figure out it's John before James can), and in researching her timeline, I learned some really interesting things about her (short story: one of the theories is that she wasn't murdered, but that the girl found was recovering from an abortion and when Mary found out, she ran away). This allowed me to invent two abnormals: 1. the abortionist, who functions something like an kangaroo in that she can "hold off" pregnancies (hence Ashley), and 2. Mary herself, who is a touch-telepath.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:21 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
You know, honestly, I know One Night was a horrible ep, but I was glad that Abby wasn't a badass FBI agent. She had her specialty, and she was good at that (her analysis of the dynamics of the group was spot-on, and better than Will's, since he's a different type of social scientist), and everything else she was out of her depth with.

Unlike Will, who somehow managed to recall how to make an antitoxin that he's probably only seen created once or twice, and he's not even a medical doctor, just a dude who did pre-med and hangs out with Magnus.

The writing was very unrealistic in that ep. It's a shame that Abby came off poorly for the writing, when it also served to make Will even more badass normal than before.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:18 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
I just feel the need to say this as a counterweight: I like Abby! I think she's sweet, and normal, and she has a lot of courage. Not to mention that she's often coping with the unknown, and, as a normal person, handling it fairly well. I think the writing for her isn't always great, but I don't think that makes her a horrible character, or that Will "deserves better."

In short: Abby is awesome.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:19 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (sabewon)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
*beams* THANK YOU. :)

Competency for Everyone, I think is the lesson to take away from this.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:22 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
You are welcome! I also pointed out, in a reply to [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com], that the writing served to make Abby come off poorly, but the writing was just as unrealistic and full of WTFery about Will. It's just it served to make him come off well, so no one is complaining about it.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:24 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I've decided not to complain about Will in public posts anymore. It's really not worth my time, unfortunately, and very nearly always leads to Kate and/or Helen bashing, and I refuse to host that party.

Date: 2011-05-31 06:25 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
Oh, hell, no. I'm not complaining about Will, just pointing out that his writing in One Night was equally as unrealistic as Abby's, and yet he's not the one who has been trashed because of it.

Date: 2011-05-31 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
Will does get much of the fandom bashing. I think he's the male character I've seen bashed the most. (not that any character deserves bashing) I think he's often written badly, so perhaps we're used to it.

Date: 2011-05-31 08:37 pm (UTC)
havocthecat: the lady of shalott (Default)
From: [personal profile] havocthecat
I hadn't realized! TBH, Will is very much not where my focus is for the show, so I don't pay much attention when discussion of him comes around. I don't generally read the comments at all. Thank you for letting me know what's up with him in the fandom!

Date: 2011-05-31 09:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
I usually avoid fandom discussions for Sanctuary. In my opinion, they consist of "The Five are AMAZING" - flailing about John, Nikola and James, with a bit of Nigel and a passing mention of Helen's awesomeness (which is NOT enough). Helen is exceptional, not because she's a love interest, she just is, dammit.

Henry is fine because he's a geek, Biggie is cool, Kate is cool (she's treated reasonably well). Will...he's the Deanna Troi of Sanctuary. He's a guy in a very 'female' role, he's subordinate to Helen (which, I like, Helen's amazing, she should so be in charge) and he's the bottom of the totem pole. He's always doing paperwork, being emotional (not badass). He's not a werewolf, or a kickass former gun for hire, and I've seen much nastiness directed his way.

So much so that I almost feel compelled to defend him as I would a female character. Which feels like an extension of misogyny to me, whether rightly or wrongly. He's a man in a 'female', nurturing role. He must be ignored and shunted to the side. I've seen icon sets of the "men of sanctuary" that leave him out entirely, people ignore him or talk about how annoying he is all the time.

It really reminds me about the way people talk about women and makes me sad. Men can be just as nurturing and emotional as women, dammit.

Date: 2011-05-31 09:54 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Helen is exceptional, not because she's a love interest, she just is, dammit.

Agreed!

But I would say, of myself at least, that James and John and Nikola are fascinating because they're her love interests (which is not exactly the right phrase, really, but I can't think of a better). Which is probably why I am all ASQUEE about James right now.

Date: 2011-05-31 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oparu.livejournal.com
hehehe, well, I'm biased and being interested in folks because they are Helen's lovers is okay.

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