'Ship Meta: Helen/James
May. 24th, 2011 09:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
grav_ityHow convenient that I just uploaded this icon...
Let me open by saying that while this was probably inevitable, I am choosing to blame it on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
midwifeonboard, because her post was the post where I typed out the eight or so questions I have about this ship and how it works. Honestly, though, I've pretty much been thinking about it all day. Because if I start thinking about James/John again (or, God help me, Helen/James/John), my brain might explode.
Also, a lot of these might turn into fic, but I need to think first, and that means typing.
ETA: Oh, look: there's the fic.
One of the things about Normandy that I'm choosing to love (because I could just as easily choose to NOT love it), is that the episode manages to single-handedly joss almost every fic that I love. And, you know, my ENTIRE INTERPRETATION OF JAMES TO THIS POINT. Rather than commence with the rending of garments and the gnashing of teeth (er...well maybe the rending of garments...fictionally anyway), I've decided to just re-read everything I love and see if it will work with what we now know to be the truth. I've done a quick circuit, and managed to come up with a few questions (not all of which I can answer), and a few Things I Believe To Be True.
Are you all sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
1. When did they get together?
I have always thought that this happened in 1892-3, once Gregory had departed for Mecca and James moved into the Sanctuary (or whatever). I think they let other people think James was courting, or something, but I genuinely think that by this point, they had decided that their friendship was worth more than the gossip people would circulate, and that they would be partners in every practical way. Also, I'm pretty sure Helen missed having sex and James missed having someone.
Fic Reference: Practical Arrangement, bypenknife (though, hilariously, my remix of it is now jossed, because John doesn't find out until 1944)
2.How did they get together?
Someone needs to write me this, actually. Though betweenpenknife's Practical Arrangement and my own porn battle fics Sometimes a Cruelty, Machination, and Communication (though maybe not in that order), I think I have a general idea. I tend to think that the first time it happened was sort of angry and/or really, really desperate, but that afterwards they both went out of their way to be ridiculously nice to one another, because they really want to be friends when the smoke clears. Or something.
3. Were they together the whole time?
I'm going to go with no. For entirely selfish reasons, mind you, but still. I don't think it took them until after 1908 to think about it, for starters, and I certainly don't think they were exclusive for more than half a century. Originally, we had constructed the idea that Helen slept with James until 1908 with some regularity (because they lived together and because they are genuinely fond of one another, so it was easy), and then with Nikola from 1908 until the late 40s when he disappeared, though not as often because he was running all over the world being a mad scientist. I think this still holds up well enough, except that once the war starts, Helen and James went back to the convenience thing because the alternatives were too depressing.
Basically, then, I think it goes like this: James/John, Oxford, John/Helen, [possible Helen/John/James], Jack the Ripper, Helen/James, Adam Worth, Helen/Nikola [with bonus Helen/James/Nikola, and John/James in Berlin], World War II starts, Helen/James, Helen moves to Old City, James/Nikola, Ashley, James/Declan. (Um, we're clear on which of those are EVENTS, right?) This also leaves room for people like Amelia Earhart and...that guy from the History Battle whose name I can never remember. Something about Latin.
Fic Reference: Understanding, bypenknife, Heated, by penknife, Buttons, by midwifeonboard, Three, by midwifeonboard, and my own Peril, Peril on the Sea and Come The Thunder, and everything dbalthasar wrote about Berlin.
4. Why did they break up?
Well I don't think they did, at least not conventionally. Which makes sense, because they were never a conventional couple. I think one morning in the late 40s, Helen was all "You know, I should move to the west coast of North America", and James didn't argue with her because he was kind of thinking the same thing. The conversation the two of them have in the lab during the first half of Revelations supports this quite well, I think. He doesn't exactly proposition her...but he comes pretty darn close. I think that scene, more than anything, tells us both why they got together and why they worked so hard to move on (once they got around to it. Which took a while. Because what they had was just so easy).
I totally didn't answer the question, and I don't think I have any fic to back up my non-answer (except Practical Arrangement again).
5. What was James's reaction to Helen's eventual decision to have Ashley?
OH GOD, I DON'T KNOW.
There are about eight things we need to think about first. Did James and Helen ever talk about having kids of their own (I doubt it), did James ever think of offering once Helen decided it was time (OH GOD, SOMEONE WRITE ME THAT), what, exactly, was James thinking when he said "You have no idea how much you hurt her!" beyond "Heck with the invasion! You can torture me all you like and I will NEVER EVEN HINT that there is a kid.", along with a bunch more ideas I can't even articulate or I'll explode with aaaaaaangst.
Honestly, I think it was Helen's final step in healing, acceptance, and James kept his damn mouth shut. I think he delivered that baby, and loved her beyond measure, and never, ever considered telling her who her father was. And I think it killed him, in a lot of the ways it killed Helen, but I don't think either of them ever regretted bringing what they thought to be the last piece of John Druitt into the world.
Fic Reference: my own Foundation of the House and Of Mice and Men, along with the relevant parts ofbessemerprocess's Mariposa Grove and there has to be others, but frankly I'm exhausted and I can't believe I'm still talking about this. Feel free to add stuff in the comments.
IN CONCLUSION
I think it is important to remember that John is John, and therefore is absolutely incapable of doing things the easy way. So he accuses James of passion, just because that's what he would do (and is, kind of, what he did). And since James is James, and therefore kind of a prick about things sometimes, he takes the bait and rubs John's face in it just because he can. I think the TRUTH in that scene is that, in that moment, they both have significantly more passion for one another, and even outside of that, James's love for Helen is something that John couldn't really understand even before he was possessed by an energy being, so they're really not going to get anywhere talking about it.
I do think that Helen and James loved each other a lot, but I think they were friends and colleagues first, and that anything that developed romantically between them grew out of their mutual love of John as much as it did their affection for one another.
Normandy giveth, and Normandy taketh away.
(Dear Brain, Don't you DARE try to tackle Nikola tonight! Love, me)
(...and now I'm thinking about tackling Nikola.)
+++
ETA: And nowartaxastra has written Three, which is TOTALLY HOW IT WORKS (and absolutely HEARTBREAKING) (AND AWESOME).
Let me open by saying that while this was probably inevitable, I am choosing to blame it on
midwifeonboard, because her post was the post where I typed out the eight or so questions I have about this ship and how it works. Honestly, though, I've pretty much been thinking about it all day. Because if I start thinking about James/John again (or, God help me, Helen/James/John), my brain might explode.Also, a lot of these might turn into fic, but I need to think first, and that means typing.
ETA: Oh, look: there's the fic.
One of the things about Normandy that I'm choosing to love (because I could just as easily choose to NOT love it), is that the episode manages to single-handedly joss almost every fic that I love. And, you know, my ENTIRE INTERPRETATION OF JAMES TO THIS POINT. Rather than commence with the rending of garments and the gnashing of teeth (er...well maybe the rending of garments...fictionally anyway), I've decided to just re-read everything I love and see if it will work with what we now know to be the truth. I've done a quick circuit, and managed to come up with a few questions (not all of which I can answer), and a few Things I Believe To Be True.
Are you all sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
1. When did they get together?
I have always thought that this happened in 1892-3, once Gregory had departed for Mecca and James moved into the Sanctuary (or whatever). I think they let other people think James was courting, or something, but I genuinely think that by this point, they had decided that their friendship was worth more than the gossip people would circulate, and that they would be partners in every practical way. Also, I'm pretty sure Helen missed having sex and James missed having someone.
Fic Reference: Practical Arrangement, by
penknife (though, hilariously, my remix of it is now jossed, because John doesn't find out until 1944)2.How did they get together?
Someone needs to write me this, actually. Though between
penknife's Practical Arrangement and my own porn battle fics Sometimes a Cruelty, Machination, and Communication (though maybe not in that order), I think I have a general idea. I tend to think that the first time it happened was sort of angry and/or really, really desperate, but that afterwards they both went out of their way to be ridiculously nice to one another, because they really want to be friends when the smoke clears. Or something.3. Were they together the whole time?
I'm going to go with no. For entirely selfish reasons, mind you, but still. I don't think it took them until after 1908 to think about it, for starters, and I certainly don't think they were exclusive for more than half a century. Originally, we had constructed the idea that Helen slept with James until 1908 with some regularity (because they lived together and because they are genuinely fond of one another, so it was easy), and then with Nikola from 1908 until the late 40s when he disappeared, though not as often because he was running all over the world being a mad scientist. I think this still holds up well enough, except that once the war starts, Helen and James went back to the convenience thing because the alternatives were too depressing.
Basically, then, I think it goes like this: James/John, Oxford, John/Helen, [possible Helen/John/James], Jack the Ripper, Helen/James, Adam Worth, Helen/Nikola [with bonus Helen/James/Nikola, and John/James in Berlin], World War II starts, Helen/James, Helen moves to Old City, James/Nikola, Ashley, James/Declan. (Um, we're clear on which of those are EVENTS, right?) This also leaves room for people like Amelia Earhart and...that guy from the History Battle whose name I can never remember. Something about Latin.
Fic Reference: Understanding, by
penknife, Heated, by penknife, Buttons, by midwifeonboard, Three, by midwifeonboard, and my own Peril, Peril on the Sea and Come The Thunder, and everything dbalthasar wrote about Berlin.4. Why did they break up?
Well I don't think they did, at least not conventionally. Which makes sense, because they were never a conventional couple. I think one morning in the late 40s, Helen was all "You know, I should move to the west coast of North America", and James didn't argue with her because he was kind of thinking the same thing. The conversation the two of them have in the lab during the first half of Revelations supports this quite well, I think. He doesn't exactly proposition her...but he comes pretty darn close. I think that scene, more than anything, tells us both why they got together and why they worked so hard to move on (once they got around to it. Which took a while. Because what they had was just so easy).
I totally didn't answer the question, and I don't think I have any fic to back up my non-answer (except Practical Arrangement again).
5. What was James's reaction to Helen's eventual decision to have Ashley?
OH GOD, I DON'T KNOW.
There are about eight things we need to think about first. Did James and Helen ever talk about having kids of their own (I doubt it), did James ever think of offering once Helen decided it was time (OH GOD, SOMEONE WRITE ME THAT), what, exactly, was James thinking when he said "You have no idea how much you hurt her!" beyond "Heck with the invasion! You can torture me all you like and I will NEVER EVEN HINT that there is a kid.", along with a bunch more ideas I can't even articulate or I'll explode with aaaaaaangst.
Honestly, I think it was Helen's final step in healing, acceptance, and James kept his damn mouth shut. I think he delivered that baby, and loved her beyond measure, and never, ever considered telling her who her father was. And I think it killed him, in a lot of the ways it killed Helen, but I don't think either of them ever regretted bringing what they thought to be the last piece of John Druitt into the world.
Fic Reference: my own Foundation of the House and Of Mice and Men, along with the relevant parts of
bessemerprocess's Mariposa Grove and there has to be others, but frankly I'm exhausted and I can't believe I'm still talking about this. Feel free to add stuff in the comments.IN CONCLUSION
I think it is important to remember that John is John, and therefore is absolutely incapable of doing things the easy way. So he accuses James of passion, just because that's what he would do (and is, kind of, what he did). And since James is James, and therefore kind of a prick about things sometimes, he takes the bait and rubs John's face in it just because he can. I think the TRUTH in that scene is that, in that moment, they both have significantly more passion for one another, and even outside of that, James's love for Helen is something that John couldn't really understand even before he was possessed by an energy being, so they're really not going to get anywhere talking about it.
I do think that Helen and James loved each other a lot, but I think they were friends and colleagues first, and that anything that developed romantically between them grew out of their mutual love of John as much as it did their affection for one another.
Normandy giveth, and Normandy taketh away.
(Dear Brain, Don't you DARE try to tackle Nikola tonight! Love, me)
(...and now I'm thinking about tackling Nikola.)
+++
ETA: And now
artaxastra has written Three, which is TOTALLY HOW IT WORKS (and absolutely HEARTBREAKING) (AND AWESOME).
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 03:33 am (UTC)Hanging out for Normandy which I haven't seen yet...but can't resist reading all the spoilers cause I'm bad that way.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 03:52 am (UTC)I'll go for that.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 04:07 am (UTC)God, though, these two are the EASY ones. :)
no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 04:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 12:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 01:00 pm (UTC)(Of course, this might just be my way of writing James/Helen and Helen/Eleanor Roosevelt in the same fic because I am INSANE.)
no subject
Date: 2011-05-25 01:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-26 12:33 am (UTC)I agree with pretty much everything you said. Especially about James delivering Ashley, which someone needs to write. Stat.
no subject
Date: 2011-05-26 01:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-26 03:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-05-26 12:53 pm (UTC)