grav_ity: (women and geeks first)
[personal profile] grav_ity
("The Definition of Man" comes from "The Chryslids", by John Wyndham. In the book, any person who does not meet the description outlined in "The Definition" is deemed subhuman, and cast out of society. In the book, they use the phrase "deviation from the norm". Plants and animals have their own definitions, and anything outside of them is killed and burned.)

This started a really long time ago, based on a conversation I had with [livejournal.com profile] tielan about what exactly makes an abnormal (and, by extension, why pretty much everything in Australia doesn't qualify). It's become something a little more since then, particularly in light of Pax Romana.

I realize there's no way the show could possibly account for everything. But Abnormality is kind of important. According to Martin Wood (I think), an abnormal is anything that punches in above its weight class, which is just so dramatically vague that it encompasses everything from that Exxon-Valdez thing in "End of Nights" to Jimmy-From-Chicago. Which, again, would not be a huge problem because nothing is perfect...but when you add in Gregory Magnus, Praxis and the way the show completely glosses over social status, it's starting to bug me anyway.

Cut for length and spoilers. (And seriously, my meta posts wander but this one freaking hitchhiked across Asia when I wasn't paying attention.)

The important thing to remember about Helen Magnus is that she's British. More than that, she's Victorian. And goodness knows, she's done a better job of adapting than, say, John or James, but she's still very much clinging to a period in time when the British Empire was not only extremely aggressive, but also really full of itself. ;) Admittedly, Helen was always on the progressive end of Victorianism, but at the same time, she's English to the core.

(There's a line in the webisodes that Ashley says to John which just absolutely cracked me up at the time (even though it rather firmly sets the show in the US). John says something about Ashley's modern behaviour, and Ashley says "Great, not only are you a kidnapping psychopath, you're also a Republican". Now that I've had some time to think about it though...it's kind of true. For John and James, at least. And Helen is weirdly conservative sometimes too.)

I am sort of party to the idea that Gregory Magnus dealt almost entirely with non-human abnormals, and I'm also not sure on how thrilled he was with Helen's Source Blood experiment, not the least because it meant she had barred herself from Hollow Earth (ish). Because I think Gregory had a very human-centric vision of the abnormal world. For starters, he uses the word "abnormal" to describe them and, as we find out in "Revelations", he views himself as a sort of Victorian-era Noah; he's sees abnormals as animals, animals for study.

I don't think Helen was quite as narrow minded. For starters, her position and professional goals would have put her even more on the fringes of polite society than Gregory, even BEFORE she made friends with Nikola and Nigel. I think she was more willing to look beyond the definition of man because she didn't actually fit it, even when she was "normal". I think she saw an abnormal world and thought "Why the hell not?", and then talked four of her friends into jumping off the cliff with her.

And I think Gregory was pissed. Because even though she was nearly 40 when it happened, she was still his daughter, still human, and he had plans for her that did not involve her developing as a scientist independently (on account of how he started giving her the Hollow Earth gifts more than 10 years before she injected herself with the Source Blood). After Gregory disappeared, Helen branched out and started working with more human abnormals, like herself, and in the process discovered that sometimes things that don't look human are sentient. I imagine the random vivisections and haphazard experiments stopped right about then.

Let's look at the episode "Kush", wherein Helen et al get manipulated and systematically eliminated by a dangerous abnormal creature. Face value, not so bad, but at the same time, Helen's the one that captured it in the first place. And they had to go to an extremely remote place to get it, so it's never made clear that the creature was a threat before its capture. Helen was just taking it home to study it, without attempting any communication, even though it was clearly intelligent.

What I'm getting at is that Helen Magnus is progressive and beautifully selfish, but also that there are certain aspects of her character that accept The Natural Order of Things. It's been a hundred years, after all, and not only does she jump before her father says "how high", she also clings to a word like "abnormal", which is...kind of right on the edge of flat out offensive, I think.

Which brings us to Hollow Earth. Long before they ever get to The City, it tries to kill Helen and Nikola in her own house, and we know how she feels about people who mess with her house. And then once they get to The City, they actually do get killed. And then brought back to life, of course, but still: awkward first impression.

Then we learned that The City (which doesn't appear to actually have any inhabitants? Or maybe they just all like sitting inside a lot?), gives whole new meanings to the word "draconian". They can suppress abnormality, and do so without permission. They are quite liberal with the death penalty. And, like any good oppressive government, they are very ethnocentric.

And Helen never calls them on it. She doesn't even look like she's thinking about it. And she met the mushroom farmers, who saved her, took her in and fed her (medicine, at that). But once she arrives in the city and Ranna is all "We must control the abnormals and maintain order", Helen just rolls with it (and so does Gregory, and he's been there forever).

Which brings me to Pax Romana. No one ever seems to remember what happened to the Romans when they decide to base themselves on that particular culture. Everyone thinks of glowing white marble statues and forgets that it only really worked if you were male, a certain age, and born in the correct place. And it really didn't work of you wanted to maintain your racial identity. It's been 2000 years, after all, and there are cultures in Europe and the Middle East that have never recovered.

So despite a show that dwells on independence, we're supposed to cheer for a people who actively suppress abnormality. I think my biggest surprise in watching "Pax Romana" is that at the end of the episode, we were still on Ranna's side. I kept yelling "BUT THE MUSHROOM PEOPLE!" at the screen and...nothing.

Which is mostly why I'm glad the Hollow Earth thing is over for now, and we're not getting Gregory back any time soon. Because in a regular episode, I'm okay with being satisfied with Helen and Kate being awesome. If they insist on waving class and racist behaviour in my face, though, we're going to have a problem. I love TPTB a lot, but history indicates they are REALLY BAD at dealing with big issues.

I'm just going to stop before I make a bigger mess than I already have, but the conclusions I have drawn are:

1. Helen needs to get out from under Gregory's thumb. I'm not saying she shouldn't love him, because he's her dad, but seriously. We have spent 11 episodes watching an otherwise supremely independent woman get manipulated by her father, and I'm kind of over it.

2. If (when) they do go back to Praxis, I hope it's a little deeper. Uh, no pun intended. Because we all know what happened to the Romans, and it looks like Adam was right, in theory if not in practice.

3. I'm kind of okay with them having such a tentative definition of "abnormal", because I think it indicates how quickly Helen's world can change. I'd just like her to ask more questions about it, sometimes.

++++

Fic Recs

A New Prometheus, by [livejournal.com profile] artaxastra. In which James has some issues with Gregory's methods, and John has some issues with Gregory himself. (And they both realize that they are kind of powerless to protect Nikola, let alone themselves.)

The Platypus Test, by [livejournal.com profile] grav_ity. In which Helen ponders the meaning of abnormality.

(Never) Neverland, by [livejournal.com profile] grav_ity. In which Gregory mourns for something that wasn't his to lose (and maybe grows as a person...but probably not).

I am SURE I am missing fics here, so please add more in the comments.

Date: 2011-04-17 02:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] openended.livejournal.com
I had quite a bit of trouble with Pax Romana and was having difficulty putting my finger on exactly what it was (besides awkward plots, quick resolution, and my general annoyance with hand-waving), and you named it exactly: at the end of it, we're supposed to be on the side of this woman who wants to suppress abnormals and control the "outside tribes" (which I assume are the mushroom farmers and the creepy dudes Adam enlists, among others we didn't see) so that balance and order between the city and the surface can be maintained...but everything we've learned thus far in the show about Helen and her crew is that they think abnormals shouldn't necessarily be suppressed (except for maybe the big angry ones).

I could maybe get behind it if we knew exactly what would happen if that balance fell apart, but we don't and there's therefore no danger or tension in the situation; it's not like a character casually mentions that if city-dwellers appear on the surface than suddenly the orbit of the Earth will change and we'll be that much closer to the sun and fry or something. We're supposed to take the importance of the balance (or the fact that if the city falls, so does the surface) at face value.

And Helen never calls them on it. This bothered me so much. Because we've spent two and a half seasons listening to her talk about the importance of treating abnormals as equals and caring for them as individual creatures, and it's such a dramatic shift in Helen's character and viewpoint to not have even the slightest problem with this woman and her attitude. I'm fine with her decision to roll with Ranna's plan, but the fact that we didn't get a single "I'll help you out, but you need to know that I really disagree with your methods and policies" comment struck me as odd. Maybe it's a side effect of being dead for a few minutes.


Even though I wish that they'd spent more time on this episode expanding upon the plots they were working with so that they'd make sense and have more reasonable resolution, I'm really glad the Hollow Earth storyline is over. For now, at least; I've heard rumblings that it's a continuing thread throughout the rest of the season. When I wasn't being bored by it, it made me twitchy and uncomfortable.

Date: 2011-04-17 03:08 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen magnus is kind of the best ever)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Exactly! I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop and...nothing. I managed to type up my whole initial episode review before I thought about it, and then I decided to write it's own separate entry, because I'd been meaning to write something about abnormals anyway. I have great faith in this show, so I'm not worried. It's just that I've now reached the stage where I expect more. :)

Date: 2011-04-17 04:05 am (UTC)
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Helen)
From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
Oh, yes. The "abnormal" term really, really bugs me about Sanctuary. I mean, even if they just discussed it sometimes, but it's like they're blind to the fact that it's a negative term--not that they really use it that way, but... well, it doesn't help that MOST of the abnormals we see either aren't sentient or don't look sentient and aren't treated like they are. With notable exceptions, of course.

And Pax Romana--I mean, I do appreciate that Helen can get over being killed, and even like and respect Ranna, but to buy into the whole premise so easily--AUGH.

I'm sorry about this comment being so long, but I definitely was bugged by this, especially in this last episode. (Not even Will brought it up, and he's the one who is most often pointing things like this out.)

Hell, I'd even be okay with it (the show, not the situation) if Will and Helen just argued about it a little.

Date: 2011-04-17 04:09 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (because if I have a tesla icon then I ne)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Dude, did you see the comment above yours? ;) Long is encouraged in the meta posts.

The thing that kills me is that HELEN IS ALSO AN ABNORMAL. And the show seems to forget that a lot. Like in "Trail of Blood", when she's all "They're abominations!" and Nikola apologized, when what I really wanted (and, uh, wrote) was for him to yell at her a lot because GOD!

Yes. Issues. I would like them to be dealt with. Thank goodness for fandom.

Date: 2011-04-17 06:15 am (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : Ashley gun)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
in "Trail of Blood", when she's all "They're abominations!" and Nikola apologized, when what I really wanted (and, uh, wrote) was for him to yell at her a lot because GOD!

YES! ToB is so problematic in that regard.

Date: 2011-04-17 06:07 am (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : For all eternity)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
talked four of her friends into jumping off the cliff with her.

Such a perfect way to put it!

I agree, abnormal is offensive.

I kept yelling "BUT THE MUSHROOM PEOPLE!" at the screen and...nothing.

*nods* Yes, that's problematic. I don't remember exactly, were they humans?

Date: 2011-04-17 06:10 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (anthropologist)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I may have stolen it from [livejournal.com profile] artaxastra...;)

The Mushroom People were humanoid abnormals. They looked human, but could produce the holograms (as children, anyway). They have a severe quota which they must send to Praxis, to their own detriment if necessary, and yet they are forbidden access to the city without permits. Their technology is significantly lower and...yeah. Pax Romana is only good if you're a Roman. I mean, heck, if you really wanted to, you could blame them for the Israel/Palestine conflict, but that's meandering a bit from the topic at hand.

Date: 2011-04-17 06:16 am (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : Helen back)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
Okay, I somehow missed that. I thought they used some kind of technology.

Date: 2011-04-17 06:28 am (UTC)
mad_maudlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mad_maudlin
This also ties into Henry's story arc, at least the snapshots we get of it in the Token Henry Episodes. S1, he can't even identify as an Abnormal even though he's presumably been one all his life, and is even willing to consider risky surgery to suppress his transformations--he has that line in "Edward" (I think?) along the lines of, "I've worked with Abnormals all my adult life...and now I am one," as if this is NEW, and in general he pathologizes the hell out of it. Biggie semi-calls him on it (in the same conversation as above) but in general, at least in these episodes, they act as if Henry is only an Abnormal when he HAPs out and the rest of the time he still "counts" as human.

S2 he seems more at ease with it--there's no more shots of him popping pills--but he's still repressing the shit out of it. It's only in the front half of this season that he seems comfortable with being a HAP--first when he roars at Wexford, and later, of course, when he spends his vacation in England moralizing at the Lycans. They've also been more open with him using his sense of smell (and whatever "spidey sense" he was operating on in "Firewall") even when he's human, which makes him seem like more of a whole person and not, y'know, a werewolf. But it still has a certain cant, almost like ablism, wherein "becoming" an Abnormal was the Worst Thing Ever to Happen to Henry, and the main thrust of his character development has been overcoming/coming to terms with it.

Date: 2011-04-17 01:56 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Yeah, Henry's story was on my list, but it got to the point where I had to start editing or we'd all be here forever. ;)

Date: 2011-04-17 04:43 pm (UTC)
mad_maudlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mad_maudlin
And I realized that after I posted that comment and went to bed: Henry was considering potentially damaging surgery as a better alternative that being a HAP, and Magnus was totally willing to go along with it if that was what he wanted. Doesn't that sound at least a little like reparative therapy for homosexuals? You could take the mission statement of NARTH and replace all the references to homosexuality with Abnormality...

Date: 2011-04-17 05:55 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I do that all the time. :)

But yes: Henry's surgery, and some of the comments he made to Bigfoot that episode...I think it threw off my whole dynamic with Henry for a good long while, and I adored him after the pilot.

Date: 2011-04-17 07:55 am (UTC)
sholio: sun on winter trees (Sanctuary-Helen)
From: [personal profile] sholio
Can I just give a big *thumbs up* to this whole post? Because - yes! I think you did a great job with articulating a lot of the problems that I have with the show. The thing is, on one level, I love the show for just being fun; I love the character dynamics, and I adore Helen because she's smarter than everyone and can kick serious ass. ("Breach" is possibly one of my favorite episodes of anything ever ... well, okay, anything that's been on TV lately, anyway. *g*)

But at the same time, I absolutely agree with you that Helen's outlook on life and the natural order of things is massively Victorian, and while that works perfectly well for her as a character, where things kind of fall apart is that the show seems to be not only failing to present an alternate viewpoint, but actively supporting her in this. There is a ton of unexamined privilege on the show that really bothers me, especially since the show's worldbuilding has the inherent potential to be such an awesome vehicle for exploring issues of racism/oppression and acceptance and identity. I don't even think they'd have to give up anything to do it; they could still tell rocking adventure stories AND bring these undercurrents to the surface and deal with them. For example, in "Pax Romana" it appeared for a while that they were setting up this really fascinating "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation with the rebels in Hollow Earth, where they were willing to let Adam spearhead their resistance even though he's a crazy megalomaniac bastard, because they're in a bad situation and people in bad situations do awful things. And then ... that just kind of fizzled out, and I guess we were supposed to be on Ranna's side all along? Wait, what? It's like they're capable of setting up these really fascinating scenarios but not working them through to their logical conclusions.

The way they use the term "Abnormal" is probably the thing that bothers me most. I had thought at first that they were just using it for the animals, and when I realized that "Abnormal" means everything from weird-looking cockroaches to mermaids and werewolves, and it's set up in diametric opposition to the category "human" -- I just had those whole full-body *shudder* reaction. It's just ... offensive! Like you said! And I don't think they seem to realize that.

I just wish the show seemed more self-aware about it. As much as I love Helen, I would also love to see another character call her on her paternalism towards "Abnormals", and have that actually taken seriously! I would love to see acknowledgment on the show that the Sanctuaries (which basically amount to reservations run FOR the Abnormals but, largely, BY humans, and by human rules) might not be the only solution to their problems! Or, at least, I'd like to see the issue brought up in a serious way. Ironically, I think it would make me feel more positively towards the Sanctuary network in general, and Helen as a character, to have their failings discussed in canon.

Date: 2011-04-17 08:22 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Man, people really have Thoughts about this! I'm impressed that anyone made it through my meanderings, let alone commented as well as you did. ;)

Date: 2011-04-17 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] querulouspeg.livejournal.com
I don't view these unpleasant aspects of Helen as failings. In defence of her 'Victorian-ness' and her Englishness, I think it is important to remember that that culture and mindset was not entirely about the utter economic, social and political domination of the world and nor was entirely exploitative. The Victoria era saw the introduction of labour laws and universal education. It also saw the introduction of government regulation of just about every trade and industry eg building regulation, food safety and hygiene, public sanitation. Also the systematisation of the world with the adoption of standardised time, weights, measures, blah blah I could go on and on. I don't claim to be an expert on the period but don't we view most of these achievements as a good thing? Yes, it so happens that it was Britain that pioneered most of these things but they are not the first or last group of people to get jingoistic about it. I do find it a little depressing that people can only fix on the less positive side when they refer to something as 'Victorian'. TO me, if Helen is a product of that age, then good for her. She is a pioneer, a trail blazer, seeking to cast off superstition and custom for the sake of science and realising human potential to make things better.

Besides, it is a fact of history that great leaps forward in 'civilisation' come at a great human cost. And then you get something like the Holocaust, which reminds us that 'civilisation' is really a hollow idea, because in the midst of all that progress and technology and englightenment, western civilisation perpetuated the greatest act of mass murder in human history.

We might want everything to be fair and just, but the fact remains, it isn't. There might be an ideal that we strive for but it isn't necessarily a reflection of reality.

I'm perfectly at ease with the fact that Helen's morality and behaviour doesn't necessarily tie in my own. She dealt with things like I never have or ever will, but she's has a much more profound impact on the Sanctuary world than I will ever have on the real one!

Date: 2011-04-17 08:23 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I don't view them as failings either, per se, and I did mention a couple of times that she's definitely on the progressive end of just about everything, but at the same time...I kind of wish they'd acknowledge it from time to time.

Date: 2011-04-17 04:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fallon-ash.livejournal.com
I approve so much of this post (and its comments). As much as I love Sanctuary they do throw around a lot of BS that they need to be called on, and you did so more thoroughly and eloquently than I've ever been able to.

I instinctively blame Damian Kindler for a lot of it... it may be wrong, but a lot of things he's said in interviews and on the podcasts just rub me the wrong way. He may be a fine writer, but he often fails to see the larger issues at hand, and that goes all the way back to my first beef with him, in SG-1's Prometheus Unbound, where the notion of an Air Force officer giving CPR to a dying person was played for laughs because it was one man to another. It wasn't that it wasn't funny. I laughed instinctively the first time I saw it, and in a comedy it might have been fine, but in that setting it was so incredibly wrong, and sends a very disturbing message.

Anyway. Thanks for a great post! :)

Date: 2011-04-17 08:25 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (Default)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Oh lord, I love SG-1, but it had some TERRIBLE "big issue" moments (and SGA was almost worse, in its own way). And Sanctuary is, largely, better (at least on the female side. Oh, how I do not miss Joe Mallozi!), but still: it's become a show I Expect Better Of, which is a good thing. Now I just have to keep watching and see what happens.

Date: 2011-04-19 04:40 am (UTC)
ext_404204: oboe icon (Sanctuary)
From: [identity profile] oboetheres.livejournal.com
(This may get a bit wander-y, I hope you don’t mind.)

Thank you for writing this. I’ve been thinking something similar for a long time, and not knowing how to properly articulate it. Because I’ve definitely noticed these very fitting oversights that Helen seems to make, these blind spots of hers where she just doesn’t see anything wrong, and it’s been bugging me. Blind spots and fittingly questionable behavior on their own aren’t something that’s going to make me uncomfortable with a character, usually I just see them as wonderful, delicious shades of grey. What does make me uncomfortable, is when these shades aren’t even acknowledged. When a character does something that isn’t consistent with being the hero or the good guy, and it never even gets mentioned or recognized on screen, let alone dealt with.

I’ve had something of a ‘problem’ with Helen Magnus since mid-first season, after the initial wonder of it all had faded a bit. I didn’t have an inkling why at the time, I just knew that after some episodes, I didn’t like her as much. (I think Kush was one of those eps, for all the reasons you’ve gone into, I just don’t remember well enough to be certain.) I wanted to like her, and she did a lot of awesome stuff, so I sort of pushed it to the side and didn’t think about it much. Same with the second season, to some degree. I wasn’t sure why I was liking her less, and no one else seemed to be having that reaction, so I dismissed it as best I could. Veritas was the first episode where I started to understand. At the end, she is utterly unapologetic about the week (or few days) of hell that she just put her employees and surrogate family through. This in and of itself doesn’t bug me so much. She’s not the most apologetic person. But the fact that it was never even really acknowledged how much she’d put them through? That her attitude at the end was only self-congratulatory and glib and not the least bit sympathetic? Not even a hint of ‘I know it must have been hard for you’, and no acknowledgment that maybe she was acting in a way that might be less than ideal? She’s a role model, and she’s allowed to have faults, which is great. What isn’t great to me, is that she’s a role model, and a lot of her faults get played the exact same way as her good qualities.

Little things along those lines kept happening in season three even before Praxis and all the issues it brings up. The one I can remember at the moment is the ‘let him have his moment’ at the end of Trail of Blood. Which just about makes me sick to the stomach, because it’s played as though the audience is supposed to find it funny and maybe even a little heart-warming. Just… I have no words for that. ‘Let’s allow him to think that he is going to get his life, his body, his species (which I thrust upon him in the first place) back for a little while, so that when we take it away for emotional reasons of our own, it will be even worse for him.’ And we are supposed to find it funny. Because there is no other way that I know how to interpret that, given the structure of the scene. It’s one thing for Helen, who is in the moment, to be blind to something like that. It’s another thing altogether when the writers and the directors and the producers and the actors are blind to it for however long it took to go from script to finished episode.

And all of this leads to, yes. Just yes to this meta. I agree with pretty much everything you’ve written, and I’m very glad you wrote it because it’s really allowed me to clarify and articulate my own thoughts on Helen and the show in general. A while ago, I was just aiming all of my disquiet at Helen, but I’ve since realized that it’s not the character itself that bugs me, but the framing. TPTB throw out some amazing issues to explore, sometimes subtly, sometimes not, and then they seem to not realize what they’ve done, and it’s a bit frustrating.

Date: 2011-04-19 02:33 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen magnus is kind of the best ever)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
The two episodes where Helen and I have the most problems with each other are "Trail of Blood" and "Edward". And in Edward, I was still figuring things out, so the whole "curing abnormality" thing didn't really hit me until later, but in "Trail of Blood". it started during the episode. I mean, there's grief, which I get and which Helen is clearly suffering from, but at the same time...I really wanted Tesla to yell at her. Will should not be the only person alive who gets to call Helen on her crap.

That said, I still adore her. And I'll probably go on adoring her, despite her INSANE PLANS and general disregard for other people's feelings because wow, that never happens on TV (without someone getting punished for it, anyway), and I think it's an interesting narrative choice. I do trust TPTB a great deal (more than I did on SG-1, for sure), but every now and then they bring me up short and I'm all "....wait a minute!"

For whatever reason, Sanctuary has turned from a mindless source of entertainment to a show that makes me think (admittedly, this is probably fandom's fault). I expect things from it now. So...we'll see what happens. ;)

Date: 2011-04-19 04:31 pm (UTC)
ext_404204: oboe icon (The Five)
From: [identity profile] oboetheres.livejournal.com
For whatever reason, Sanctuary has turned from a mindless source of entertainment to a show that makes me think (admittedly, this is probably fandom's fault). I expect things from it now. So...we'll see what happens. ;)

Ha! :) This is exactly what's happening to me. Fandom makes me think, which is good, but sometimes it makes me expect a bit more from the show itself.

Date: 2011-04-29 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] samjohnsson.livejournal.com
The fall of Rome can be laid at a lot more factors than just the Imperial Pax, but I do get your point here, in that Praxis is following such a line. It's interesting they've lasted as long as they have with 'barbarians' at the gate. I also agree fully about the mushroom farmers - heck, I'd almost forgotten them since (it's like the script got changed or edited).

I actually wish we saw more of Praxis - that is a huge-ass city for the population we saw there. How does the normal Praxian live? How integrated are the invisible abnormals (such as Fallon {sp})? What's the socioeconomic standards inside the city? The culture? Is the Senate elected or inherited? Are there different laws for citizens, civilians, and foreigners?

And thank you for pointing out how Othering "abnormal" is. A stone Helen has no business throwing, that. Though, unfortunately, someone who has been Othered for a portion of their life - anecdata - seems to have as much of a chance of generating labels efficiently and they do of becoming accepting, and considering Helen's Victorian upbringing, where Society was going out to Classify the World? I'm okay with Helen's characterization - it's consistent and accurate for someone with her background. I just wish one of the more modern characters (say, maybe, the psychologist) would make note about some of these problems.

Date: 2011-04-29 07:38 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (carpe diem)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
The fall of Rome can be laid at a lot more factors than just the Imperial Pax

That really wasn't what I was implying, I just used the term because of the title of the episode. The parallels of a corrupt senate, aging infrastructure, "barbarian" hordes, unfortunate weather etc. was really more what I was going for.

I'm torn between wanting to know more about Praxis (like where the heck all the people were), and being glad we're back above ground playing with creatures and whatnot again. It's so hard being me! ;)

It's fine and in character for Helen. I just...would like to see some growth, is all.

Profile

grav_ity: (Default)
gravity.not.included

October 2022

S M T W T F S
      1
2345678
910111213 1415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031     

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Mar. 31st, 2026 12:42 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios