grav_ity: (helen and kate FTW!)
[personal profile] grav_ity
Let me open by admitting this might not make sense. My perceptions of Kate Freelander are a little complicated, and even though the breakthrough I made today seems totally rational to me, I know my own brain well enough to realize that it might not be the same for everyone else. So the short version of my post is that I love Kate Freelander.



Today, while poking around in the Sanctuary Countdown post, I realized why I love Kate Freelander so much, and also why I have trouble incorporating her into my hierarchy of favourite characters. Because in theory, I like her more than I like Nikola, John or James, but when it comes down to it, I will always squee myself to death over scenes they're in, and be significantly more level-headed even when Kate is at her most awesome.

The difference, it turns out, is Helen Magnus.

I love Helen. This has been very well documented. And my interpretation of every other character on the show, with one exception, is based on their interactions with her. I'm no huge fan of Will Zimmerman, for example, but I adore both Kush and Requiem because of the snapshots we get of the way his relationship with Helen is progressing. So far, Sanctuary has mostly been a show about the men Helen Magnus manipulates, and every single one of them is in her world because she put them there.

Not so much with Kate.

Kate walked into the Sanctuary knowing more or less exactly what it was (which cannot be said of Will, I think, nor of Henry, if only because he was too young at the time). She didn't need Helen to show her the monsters any more than she needed Helen to protect her from them (she did need protection of course, but in a far more conventional way). No one has to tell her what the Creature of the Week is, nor how to deal with it. Kate Freelander already knows.

Helen Magnus, without question, is at the top of my list of favourite characters. And then there's Ashley. And then it gets a bit messy. But Kate is not a part of that. She's at the top of her own separate list, and I'm just not sure how to reconcile that with them being on the same show.

It would be easier, I think, if Kate ever had scenes with Helen. I mean, she's had a few. Okay, I can think of one off the top of my head (that wasn't about another character, anyway, I mean just the two of them, growing as people); the one from the end of "Hero". (There were also, I know, a couple of great scenes in End of Nights, but that was back when we weren't sure if Kate was sticking around, and also they weren't equals during them, so I am reluctant to count them.) (Oh, and the "I invented it!" scene is too short and there's no payoff.)

This, I think, is the Problem With Kate: the writers have put themselves in the position of having this really competent woman, who happens to be replacing ANOTHER really competent woman, who is also the only character on the show who cannot be directly tied to a THIRD really competent woman. Faced with this, they just don't know what to do.

It's an interesting problem, in a way, and one I kind of don't mind having because a) we can solve it ourselves if/when they fail us, and b) did you see how many times I typed "competent" and "woman" in that last paragraph? But at the same time, I'm selfish. I want it all. I want my Kate and Helen bottle episode, and then I want them to be awesome for the rest of the season.

(It's worth mentioning, I think, that Kate doesn't have a file in the opening credits. In season two, I handwaved this by saying that Kate hadn't been there long enough to have a file, but...SURELY Helen did some kind of background check? I mean, the only reason she'd've had a file on Will is because of his mother's attack, or because she stalked him afterwards so...she must have something on Kate somewhere.)

It's also worth pointing out, I think, that on a show with an unconventional lead and a terribly predictable protege (not necessarily in the bad way, I'll admit. It works for a reason), we have another unconventional female character who seems to be following in her path:

1. Daddy-issues (but not in the annoying way).
2. Willingness to go against the norms of her society.
3. Ability to think on her feet.
4. Ability to use said feet to kick serious ass.
5. Creative problem solving.
6. Drive to Finish The Job.
and, IMO, the coolest, 7. The first and deepest bond we see between her and another resident of the Sanctuary is with Bigfoot (which is important because both Helen and Kate had different views of abnormals before they met him (or at least in Helen's case it's a safe assumption), and yet...surgery and movie nights).

I'm starting to get side-tracked.

What it comes down to is this very strange and unique scenario. When you think of other female characters on TV, they always have connections to one another. They're professionally antagonistic like CSI's Catherine and Sara. They're teacher/student like Caprica's Clarice and Lacy. They're mother and daughter like Helen and Ashley. They're friends, they're rivals (or worse, they're romantic rivals), they're something. Something that lets you pick sides. Something that allows you to say "I like a more than b because c." Sanctuary hasn't done this.

Instead we have Kate, who goes on off-screen solo missions requiring significant logistical organization, who has contacts that her co-workers don't know about, who knows where all the money is, who doesn't need to be babysat...and TPTB don't know how to deal with the amazing character they've created apparently by accident.

And we have Helen, who hasn't restricted her in any of the ways she has restricted the guys (or Ashley, for that matter), and what we need now is for them to connect.

Does anyone know how to enter a question for Tapping Tuesday?


+++

More thoughts and a few fic recs can be found here.

Date: 2011-04-13 12:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rj-anderson.livejournal.com
...

I think you just completely blew my mind, but you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Wow. I love this show. And so much YES to that bottle episode!

Date: 2011-04-13 01:50 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
It was a weird progression of thoughts, but I am glad to know they make sense to other people!

Date: 2011-04-13 01:09 am (UTC)
jerusha: (kate name)
From: [personal profile] jerusha
This is SO TRUE, and yet I'd never thought of it in this way before. I love Kate, and I love Helen, and the two feelings are not mutually exclusive the way they are on so many shows. So, yay!

Date: 2011-04-13 01:51 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I'll admit, in the end I had to draw a chart of other female characters and their relationships, and then I realized that these two kind of...don't have one? Or something? And then it all made sense (to me). I'm glad it came out coherently. :)

Date: 2011-04-13 01:33 am (UTC)
mad_maudlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mad_maudlin
I think this is an EXCELLENT explanation for Kate, and why she doesn't get enough screen time. To be honest, the idea of a Kate and Helen bottle episode provokes potential dolphin noises from me.

Date: 2011-04-13 01:52 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I realized yesterday that I based a lot of my own personal Kate canon on "The Story Needed Mending"...which I just realized I did not rec in this meta post (typically my meta posts end with recs for the fics that got me thinking). Clearly I need to do this today!

Date: 2011-04-13 01:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] canadiankitty.livejournal.com
that all makes complete and total sense. In fact a lot of it is what I've always wanted to say but could never really put into coherent words. Thanks for laying it all out like that, it gives me a new understanding of Kate and come to think of it... there hasn't been a lot of interaction between Helen and Kate. I for one am now very curious as to how that would go...

Date: 2011-04-13 01:53 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I really want the interaction!

Date: 2011-04-13 02:23 am (UTC)
ext_2131: picture of a fish with lots of green (Helen_smile)
From: [identity profile] holdouttrout.livejournal.com
Oh my goodness! This was a really fun post, and I think you're right--AND I really wish we had more Kate and Magnus being awesome, too.

I really, really wish I knew a good way to get a question for TT in there. I think you just tag it on twitter???

Date: 2011-04-13 01:54 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Well, I tagged a question. Shall see what happens, I guess.

Date: 2011-04-13 02:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] liliofthevaley.livejournal.com
This is an interesting way to view Kate's character within the show. And they clearly were lacking Kate and Helen interaction in the second Season. Glad they're making that (sorta) better now.

Date: 2011-04-13 01:55 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Sort of...but I want one on one scenes! With character growth! And bonding! And...I don't even know!

*selfish fan is selfish*

Date: 2011-04-13 02:04 pm (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : For all eternity)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
I want one on one scenes

Yes, this. And bonding! Not to be confused with bondage, although that would work too as far as I'm concerned.

Date: 2011-04-13 02:15 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (not paired up for square dancing)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I am already planning plans...

(Not about bondage, per se, but you never know what someone else might come up with)

Date: 2011-04-13 03:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aethre.livejournal.com
Yes! I think I did the same when ranking the characters - it took me forever to realise that Kate is actually a very close second after Helen. And even then that came as a complete surprise to me.

Date: 2011-04-13 01:57 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
For me, it's more like a tree, instead of a list:

-------------------Helen--------------------
Ashley-----------------------------------Kate
James
Nikola
John
Big Guy
Henry
Will etc.

But I don't want it to look like Kate is unconnected to everyone (because she's not), or that she and Ashley and interchangeable (because they are SO not). It's COMPLICATED. And intriguing...;)

Date: 2011-04-13 03:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] threerings.livejournal.com
I've always kinds got the impression that Helen actively avoids Kate for some reason. Possibly just because she knows Kate is competent and doesn't need any hand-holding. But maybe due to trust issues? Don't know, but it's interesting and I would LOVE to see them have a bottle episode. Maybe on an airship? (We did planes and submarines already...)

Date: 2011-04-13 01:59 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
In my perfect world, the episode starts with them both tied to separate pipes in some underground bunker, and by the end of the episode they've saved themselves, bonded, and blown stuff up in the process.

Oooh, but your word choice of "avoided" is making me all thinky again...(I don't necessarily think that Helen avoids Kate, but I've thought of a couples reasons why she could...)

Date: 2011-04-13 04:43 am (UTC)
shadadukal: (SFA : Kate close-up)
From: [personal profile] shadadukal
I think your assesment of Kate and her place on the show is spot-on. I want that Kate & Helen bottle ep!

Date: 2011-04-13 01:59 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
BOTTLE EPS FOR EVERYONE*!



*by which I mean Helen and Kate. And me. Obviously. :)

Date: 2011-04-13 08:18 am (UTC)
tielan: (Sanctuary)
From: [personal profile] tielan
Totally agree with your assessment!

There have been small moments of connection between Helen and Kate - the balcony scene in Sleepers comes to mind - but overall, the writers haven't done a very good job of connecting Kate in with Helen.

And they do need to. And fast. BOTTLE EPISODE, STAT.

We need many more requests for a Helen&Kate bottle episode. MANY MORE REQUESTS.

Date: 2011-04-13 02:00 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
I'm thinking of maybe having a Kate and Helen Bottle-Thon? In June/July/August? If you wanted to start thinking about it...;)

ETA: Okay, so I have no resolve or judgement. Don't know what I'm going to DO with it yet...but at least I have the name: [livejournal.com profile] bottle_thon.
Edited Date: 2011-04-13 04:09 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-04-13 08:42 pm (UTC)
tielan: (Sanctuary)
From: [personal profile] tielan
Would depend on how burned out I was by that time. I've got a lot of projects due in the next two months....

And I see that you've already started the party! LOL.
Edited Date: 2011-04-13 08:45 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-04-14 01:07 am (UTC)
ext_1358: (kate - this is a hold up)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Just quietly for now. Can you add it to the Newsletter?

Date: 2011-04-13 10:24 am (UTC)
ext_404204: oboe icon (Sanctuary)
From: [identity profile] oboetheres.livejournal.com
But Kate is not a part of that. She's at the top of her own separate list, and I'm just not sure how to reconcile that with them being on the same show.
I find myself having this problem with nearly every character in Sanctuary. I have a short list of characters who I most identify with, characters who I love for who they are, and characters that I love for their potential, and many other categories. And... none of them are actually really my sole favorite. I just like them for different reasons.

I want my Kate and Helen bottle episode, and then I want them to be awesome for the rest of the season.
This would be just awesome, imo.

Date: 2011-04-13 02:10 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (helen and kate FTW!)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
For me, Kate is the only one who is independent (besides Helen, of course), but it's interesting to talk about how other people see things, because sometimes once they explain it, everything becomes SO CLEAR to me. :)

Date: 2011-04-13 05:27 pm (UTC)
ext_404204: oboe icon (Sanctuary)
From: [identity profile] oboetheres.livejournal.com
it's interesting to talk about how other people see things, because sometimes once they explain it, everything becomes SO CLEAR to me. :)
This is one of my favorite things about fandom, and sometimes it even helps bring non-fannish parts of my life into clarity.

Date: 2011-04-13 05:32 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (existing)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
Oh for sure! There are HUGE parts of my life that I can tie directly to goings-on in various fandoms, and Sanctuary has been no exception. :)

Date: 2011-04-14 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] maccadole.livejournal.com
This post makes so much sense, you have no idea. It's how I feel, too.
I feel like I have a ton to say, but I can't get it out. Just... it was brilliant. I agree with a lot of comments already made.

Oh, and also, I desperately crave that bottle episode.

Date: 2011-04-14 01:08 pm (UTC)
ext_1358: (kate - this is a hold up)
From: [identity profile] grav-ity.livejournal.com
*coughs* [livejournal.com profile] bottle_thon :)

Glad you liked (and understood!) my thoughts. This is definitely the most esoteric meta I've ever done, so it's something of a relief that people are agreeing and understanding. ;) And thank you for commenting!

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